Active Bonnet issue?

Technical Area Body, Interior & Styling
101

Purplebox, I did use the Call Mazda First service for which they did the following:

  1. Picked up my car and put it into overnight storage

  2. Provide taxi to my destination

  3. Take car to local dealer (Nottingham) - who then referred the vehicle onto another dealer (Stapleford) - who then said they haven’t got my car at all - called up Mazda Assistance and they told me it is at one of their Approved Repairers in Derby.

  4. Called up the repair centre everyday for 4 days and they still haven’t managed to provide an estimate cost for the works.

I have now heard back from Mazda UK today and they have reaffirmed that the system worked as it was supposed to do and so therefore would be up to myself/insurance to sort out.

Called my insurance today and they are taking care of it. They will arrange for my vehicle to be picked up tomorrow and take it to their authorised repair centre and provide me with a courtesy car until the work to my car has been done.

All in all, I am a frustrated Mazda user. I fully understand their explanation etc, it was their lack of communication combined with their approved repair centres procrastination that has massively disappointed me.

So how do I fit bull bars to the front of my ND???

 

102

Strange, I just watched a crash testing video of the ND on you tube and the active bonnet only activated in one crash which was front full on into the wall all the other crashes which wrote the car off front on it stayed shut so being hit by a wheel trim should be very unlikely.

103

Well I’ve had to look in my handbook now, and I can’t find (yet) the reference to dropping the bonnet rather than pushing it shut, but I have read it somewhere… Perhaps it was on some crack pot MX-5 forum, you can usually rely on those for bad advice! Wink

I shall continue to drop mine from about 9 inches… 

 

104

Pretty sure the way I close both lids was described in very early days on the old forum, and crack pot? I wouldn’t rate this forum generally as being totally authentic. - I’ve read some crazy suggestions in nearly fifteen years in the Club.

As I said earlier, dropping the lid, especially from height, will deform the position of the bonnet alarm switch on early cars (Mk1’s and 2/2.5’s) and it’s a common cause of alarms going off when passing vehicles or high wind trigger ‘wobble’ in the bonnet lid. Had trouble with mine early on, despite how I close the bonnet, so I know what to suspect when anyone complains of a problem.

How to close either lid hasn’t been mentioned for several years, so we have newbies right left and center making the transition from normal cars with steel bonnets - presumably treating their lids as they would any other make of car. (The gear lever also get’s the same treatment - as I personally realised in early days)
Such facts should be part of the welcome given to both new and potential owners both on this forum and by mail with membership details, if we wish to avoid personal opinions in future answer threads. Many opinions expressed are either hearsay or assumed. There is a right and wrong way to own, maintain and drive this car and newbies should know what’s right. Asking a dealer is not the best source, as they don’t all own and drive an MX5, rather they come equipped with stock answers if there’s a problem, we are aware of how that conversation usually goes.

Having said that, I and most others are treating this as a general opinion thread, where the OP was presumably asking for help or advice. Main problem is while everyone has an opinion, very few know how to handle a fault when it comes to talking to Mazda, and from personal experience, I can say that it doesn’t earn you any points as far as they are concerned. Legomans latest post suggests Mazda are now treating his problem with some concern, but handing it back to the insurer isn’t going to do a lot of good any which way.
Also I can’t see that an insurers repairer is going to investigate the problem, or report back to Mazda if they find - or suspect, a component fault or failure. Classic case of passing the buck.

As happened with the Mk2.5 clutch, they should take this car back to Maidstone and run it through some test simulations to see why the system is misfiring, applicable to any future failures of a similar type - for their benefit as well as for potential owners. Both new car and resale will be affected, and we have yet to see how the insurance industry will react, particularly if Mercedes are now also affected? There’s a big personal difference between buying a new car, then finding out is has a potential expensive problem, to thinking about buying one. The clutch issue proved that point. - And the cost was nowhere near as expensive.

On the one hand we have opinions that say the system is doing what it’s supposed to, and others saying it shouldn’t trigger except under original design criteria, and if that’s wrong, then it needs investigating and correcting. Good PR comes from openness and honesty, not a strong point with any car manufacturer.

The Ford influence is gone, and the Japanese are renowned for honour, so we should see them prove it in my humble opinion.

105

It is good to hear from Legoman that his problem seems to have been solved now - just such a shame that he was given the run-around initially.

I’m not surprised that Mazda has passed the buck really - judging by many posts on this forum about the company not wanting to know about design / manufacturing faults in their new cars (problems with ND hoods and gearboxes for example).  At least Legoman’s insurance company seem to have stepped up to the plate on this one.

 

106

Unfortunately Gerryn, Mazda UK have completely washed their hands of it. In an ideal world I would have liked them to investigate the matter further etc but I need a car for work and so far my work has been accommodating but I don’t want to push my luck. Hence why I am getting it sorted through my insurance as they provide me with a courtesy car.

Mazda did provide a hire car for me for 2 days (Thurs & Fri last week) which was greatly appreciated but I can’t really afford to have 2+ weeks away from our work office.

I will keep you posted with regards to the repair time but I think the following are required: new bonnet (sprayed in meteor grey), new bonnet hinges L&R, new charges/actuators L&R and possibly new active bonnet module.

Fun times indeedy…not.

107

No opinions here - 

From the ND manual - page numbers refer to the 609 page pdf version Edition 1, p.74 & 75: (my bold)

  • Always make sure that the bonnet is closed completely before driving. Otherwise, the system may not operate normally.
  • The system may not operate for about 8 seconds after the ignition is switched ON.
  • Use tyres of the same specified size on all four wheels. If tyres with different sizes are used, the system may not operate normally.
  •  If something hits the area around the front bumper, the sensor could be damaged even if the active bonnet does not activate. Always consult an expert repairer, we recommend an Authorised Mazda Repairer to have the vehicle inspected.
  • Do not remove or repair parts or wiring for the active bonnet. In addition, do not test the system’s circuitry using an electric tester. Otherwise, the active bonnet   may activate mistakenly or not operate normally. Consult an expert repairer, we recommend an Authorised Mazda Repairer for when repairs or replacement servicing is required.
  • Do not replace the front bumper, bonnet, suspension, aero parts, or wheels with non genuine Mazda parts. Otherwise, the system may not operate normally.
  • Do not install non-genuine Mazda accessories to the front bumper. In addition, do not install objects on the bonnet. Otherwise, the system may not operate normally.
  •  Do not close the bonnet excessively or apply a load to the actuator. Otherwise, the actuator could be damaged and cause the system to not operate normally.
  •  Do not modify the suspension. If the vehicle height or the damping force of the suspensions is changed, the system may not operate normally.
  • When equipping parts, consult an expert repairer, we recommend an Authorised Mazda Repairer. If parts are installed incorrectly, the active bonnet may not activate normally due to the inability to detect an impact.
  • When disposing of the vehicle, consult an expert repairer, we recommend an Authorised Mazda Repairer. If the vehicle is not handled correctly, it could result in injury.
  • The active bonnet cannot be reused if it has been activated. Have the system replaced at an expert repairer, we recommend an Authorised Mazda Repairer.
The manual goes on:

The active bonnet activates under the following conditions:

  • If the front of the vehicle hits a pedestrian or obstruction while the vehicle is being driven at a speed sufficient to activate the system, the system will activate if a certain amount of impact is applied in a collision even though no trace may remain on the front bumper. In addition, it may activate depending on the level of impact from even a light object, small animal, or other small object.
  • The system may also activate if the lower part of the vehicle or the front bumper receives an impact from one of the following situations:
  •  - The vehicle hits a curb.
  •  - The vehicle falls into a deep ditch or hole.
  •  - The vehicle bounces and hits the ground.
  •  - The front, bottom part of the vehicle contacts the slope of a parking garage, the surface of an even, undulating road, or a protruding or fallen object on the road.
On closing the bonnet, p.443:

Lower the bonnet slowly to a height of
about 20 cm (7.9 in) above its closed
position and then let it drop.

CAUTION - 

When closing the bonnet, do not push
it excessively such as by applying your
weight. Otherwise, the bonnet could be
deformed.

For clarity I repeat that the above is from the ND manual.

 

108

More one for your insurance company - but generally insurers will use non genuine parts where they can get away with it. 

Personally I think this would be bad based on the below. I would be tempted to push them to use an approved Mazda repair centre to guarantee genuine parts are used.

  • Do not replace the front bumper, bonnet, suspension, aero parts, or wheels with non genuine Mazda parts. Otherwise, the system may not operate normally.
  • Do not install non-genuine Mazda accessories to the front bumper. In addition, do not install objects on the bonnet. Otherwise, the system may not operate normally.
  •  Do not close the bonnet excessively or apply a load to the actuator. Otherwise, the actuator could be damaged and cause the system to not operate normally.
  •  Do not modify the suspension. If the vehicle height or the damping force of the suspensions is changed, the system may not operate normally.
 
109

If, as I believe he has, legoman has involved “Call Mazda First” they will arrange with his insurer for the work to be carried out by a Mazda approved garage with Mazda parts.  Well that’s what their blurb says will happen.

110

Yeah that is what they say but not what I have personally encountered. Mazda literally said that it is up to me to cover the repairs. No offer to contact my insurance or anything. So when I contacted my insurance I have now been put through my insurers process systems now. 

To be honest, I have lost a little bit of faith in Mazda to handle things in a timely manner. I mean come on, the Mazda approved garage (repair centre) that they sent my car to wasn’t able to produce an estimate for the works in the 4 days they had my vehicle. I dread to think how long it would take for them to repair my car if that is the case.

However, I understand that this may be an isolated case and other users may have received exemplary service & communication.

Hopefully in the future I won’t require any further assistance from Mazda, but if I do, I hope their communication & speed of service from them and their approved repairers are better than what I have witnessed.

 

111

Not trying to be clever, but there were two booklets with my ND pack:- (1) “Mazda European Roadside Assistance Handbook” and (2) “Accident? Call Mazda First”.  Am I right in thinking that you’ve be using the contact details in (1)?  Whereas (2) is the one that sets out step by step what to do in the event of an accident and how they will take over everything to do with the claim at no extra cost to you irrespective of fault (not including any excess on your insurance) until the car is returned to you.

112

I used (2) as this is what’s on my key fob chain. When you call (2) they put me through to Mazda Assistance as per my post. 

For the benefit of any doubt, I used the ‘Call Mazda First’ service. Then that transfers you to Mazda Assistance and then to sort the rest of the information out I had to contact a manager at Mazda Customer Relations Enquiries (who contacted their technical department) regarding the active bonnet system and liability outcome. As a point of note, I don’t think there are any cross communication here as one department called to ask if everything has been resolved while the other department was looking into it.

Like I said before, others may have had a more efficient service etc but unfortunately for me on this case I haven’t. 

I shall keep you posted about the repair etc.

 

113

Sorry about that!  Good luck!

114

An additional thought.  As this is such an unusual incident I doubt whether there will be any “independent” with the required expertise to deal with it, and I don’t suppose there will be any “pattern” parts about so there’s a good chance that they will have to use Mazda people and parts to rectify the problem.  Here’s hoping!

115

Thank you JohnM for the reproduced text from the owners handbook. This throws new light on the criteria but also throws doubt on what may happen in the incidence of a repeat thrown or loose object hitting the front of the car when it was not repaired by an authorized Mazda repair garage. We are all well aware that insurance companies have their own chain of repairers, probably chosen on a bid basis, to keep costs down. Refuse and ask for the car to go to an authorized garage and the insurer will probably negate cover, it’s blackmail of course, but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. From everyone’s elses POV - that’s fine, as it keeps premiums lower, but for the owner, it’s an unacceptable situation, they have to comply.

Thanks also to Legoman, for a detailed reply to questions, which appears to show unwillingness at Mazda to respect their own given guidance information. Having dealt with Mazda Assistance myself (initially) my lasting impression is 1) they give screen based advice, and 2) most of that is aimed at saying “No”.

Co-incidently just had a similar experience with Bosch/Worcester boiler assistance, where a string of screen based questions were thrown at me, all of which I answered truthfully. The guy at the end of the phone then said - “Ah - it appears you either have a faulty high level tank, or you need to ring your local central heating center to check the external system.” to which I replied “Sorry, but you are wrong, there’s nothing wrong with any external components, the control box in the boiler is not issuing a fire order, or there is another internal problem, and I insist it’s a covered boiler fault,NOT an external one”. Answer was “well, that’s what it says on my screen”. (I’m paying well over £100 a year for boiler cover). And I’ve had this problem before, so standing on solid ground. I insisted they send an engineer. I then got the usual disclaimer - “Well, we’ll send an engineer, but if it’s not a boiler problem, then you will be advised to pay for a central heating plumber to investigate the problem”. “Yeah - fine” I replied. Engineer arrived later same day, and found the oil pump kaput, and another problem with the control box, which he changed.
Mazda assistance - unfortunately - are better trained, so you’d get less help from them. Failing that, you get the department run around, which still leads to nowhere. Reminds me of BT (I’m now with Plusnet).

Not much help to Legoman, so far only three known cases between him and two in Oz, not enough to lend weight to a complaint. What doesn’t help is it appears, according to the manual kindly sent by JohnM, that the system activation is as expected and specified by Mazda, so there’s no grounds for complaint.
There are no complaints possible regarding unexploded bombs left buried after WW2, but I wouldn’t be happy to find one under my house, not would I be happy to drive around with a possible exploding bonnet in my car either. Owners who cluck cluck that they’ve had the car for two years and nothing happened (so far) are reminiscent of the proverbial ostrich, it’s there- waiting to happen one day. I’ve had two windscreen hits from small stones, luckily with no marks or I’d need a new screen, it did make me duck, remembering the time years ago when an Anglia van windscreen totally crazed after suffering a similar hit when driving in the fast lane, northbound on the M! - you don’t forget that.‘Punch the screen’ is out of the question when you are doing 70 mph. As it was, after finally pulling onto the hard shoulder and doing just that, I was still ducking bits of flying glass segments while maintaing 40 mph the rest of the way home. An exploding bonnet

  • O/K so it’s not a huge bang and clouds of smoke affair,- but the bonnet flying up in front of you has to be unnerving regardless. I’m a fast driver, within limits these days, but I’d be reluctant to maintain motorway speeds knowing that a small stone, nut, or anything can hit the front bumper and the bonnet will go bang.
    B road convoy driving (which I’ve avoided for several years) would also be out the question for me. You can of course put it totally out of your mind - ‘It hasn’t happened so far, so why would it?’ will make for a bigger shock than driving half expecting it, you are less prepared. I once found, to my sorrow, a bird lodged against my radiator protector, dead of course, but it’s an obvious hazard that you never think about.
    Call me the devils advocate if you wish, but certainly I would never consider buying a Mk4 - even if I could afford it.- I can’t - so no problem.

With current and possible future safety legislation, an electric sports car seems about the worst thing anyone can build, or anyone buy, when you think about it. “The silent exploding killer” is coming - – -.
Perhaps one day - someone will invent ‘The pedestrian protective barrier’ a la Star Trek, so sidewalks are impossible to leave except at designated crossing points. (Jaywalkers get an electric shock) Let’s start thinking about protecting the drivers for a change?

116

 

As has been somewhat referred to, the requirement is in EU Type Approval Legislation. Increasingly, (and a good thing) vehicle safety auithorities are cooperating on a global scale, and this might be somewhat influenced by the WTO, and standards are mirrored. There may be a question of timetabling. The EU I think was the first to implement things, and it lead to the reactive bonnet being fitted to the NC3 (without this, the NC would have been banned). I am not certain though in Japan market models had the same. I suspect that the US will implement similar legislation, but moves along s different timetable, to enable domestic manufacturers to comply; a large part of production output is confined to the domestic market, and are not exported to developed markets.

 

And for thread on the Australian car, in case others are not aware, the price of the repair was somewhat overstated:

 

 

 

117

Andy , I said that earlier (page 4 IIRC)

 

118

If you are content- fine, lets hope you stay that way. I’m not wishing this occurrence on anyone, or the gearbox issue either. (well documented in various countries.) Let’s see how many reports we get in twelve months time, is all.

119

So over the years I’ve touched up many large stone chips on the front of cars. I’ve had small fruit and large pine cones drop onto vehicles with alarmingly load bangs. I’ve hit a rabbit which didn’t survive, I’ve had a bird wedged firmly in a front grille, also sadly deceased. I’ve hit a cat, a black one at night which ran out in a 30mph limit, braked hard and it survived but not without dislodging the front grille of the car.

Total repair costs of all these incidences around £1.50 in touch up paint.

If any of these had been in an ND it would have been highly likely that the bonnet would trigger.

Fragile gearboxes and trigger happy exploding bonnets makes the pros and cons list for moving on to an ND far less enticing.

120

Strangely enough the “active bonnet” did not (to my knowledge) appear in any promotional literature or videos, nor do I remember any review mention it.  The demo people from Mazda didn’t mention it, neither did the dealer, In fact I didn’t really realise it had one or what it was and did (yes, I’d seen the light in the display) until the start of this thread.  Am I the only one who was that ignorant at the time of purchase?  I’d have thought they’d have made it a big selling point, or maybe they thought better of it.  Keep shtum!