Automatic - leave it in Drive or go to Neutral?

Hmmmm… Whilst I respect RoSPA/IAM as road safety organisations it’s not actually the word of God is it, just someones opinion of what they feel is right to do and such opinions have also been known to change with fashion.

For the reasons specified by others above - road safety/creep/the possibility of my foot slipping of the footbrake - I will continue to drop it into neutral at Traffic lights and any situation where I judge the wait is likely to more than momentary.

I also keep a close check on the traffic approaching me from behind whilst I’m stationary to see that they’re slowing appropriately and also flash my brake lights, if I’m not happy I move into ‘drive’ and start looking for a place to go… Having been a motorcyclist for more than 40yrs makes you very aware of what happening behind you.

I’m not suggesting anyone else should follow my example, it was just how I was taught and I’m comfortable doing it this way.

I agree.

We must all do what we think best

I’d say that ROSPA need to update their info. How long ago did cars have automatic chokes?

I put my BMW diesel in neutral if waiting for some minutes, such as if certain traffic lights have just changed to red as I approach them, handbrake on, too. At our local railway crossing I usually switch the engine off.

i don’t like causing dazzle to following drivers at night so my foot brake goes off. However, the car needs the footbrake pressed to move the lever back to drive (and the trigger pressed, as already described.

i was taught not to leave an automatic idling in drive because the transmission fluid of older boxes could overheat; possibly not a problem these days but I still prefer not to do it.

I think that the most important thing to do is “RTFM”! (Read the Flipping manual!)

 

all cars are different. Many now have “start/stop” so follow the guidelines your manual tells you to follow…

after having watched “100 year old” driving school and seen IAM “observers” grab wheels, and then claim the person was safe on the roads…when they clearly were not that we should take that programme has a LOB (load of b…) along with the advice they were giving out

Sitting at traffic lights with your foot on the brake is rude and discourteous to the drivers/road users behind you who are being blinded, because you are too lazy to apply a handbrake. Putting a manual car into neutral, and taking your foot off the clutch take but a second…maybe 2…it also makes it safer for pedestrians crossing in front of you should your foot slip, or you are shunted  

think of things another way…if you knew a car was driven correctly, with the drivers following the guidelines of the manufacturer , you are more likely to buy that than from someone who will not or can’t follow basic skills, guidelines

 

cheers 

I keep my foot on the brake until the car behind me stops, sometimes if the car behind me is approaching fast I dab the foot brake a couple of times.

1 Like

there’s nothing worse than a driver relaxing at the lights in neutral, handbrake on waiting until the light goes green before selecting drive then releasing the brake by which time the lights are going red again.

Me for foot on the brake in drive if it’s daylight & if the driver behind is blinded then maybe the optician eye test is a good idea.

Sacrilege alert!
In over 50 years driving my daily drivers, other than various sports cars, have always been big automatics - V6’s & V8’s. Thinking hard I can truthfully say I have never once used the N other than when ramped for wheel or brake work. Oh, and the very occasional renewal of half-shafts on Rover 3500’s. Always ‘felt’ it wasn’t necessary. Having to stop at lights etc I have used P. Handbrake? Mainly for MOT test purposes.

Fun alert!
Occasionally used the pre-select capability of manually going through the gears with the auto-shift to get higher rev gear changes. I know, I know, but great fun.

 

 yeah 

TBH there’s actually no difference whether it’s an auto or a manual if the driver’s half asleep at the lights.

In the perfect world a competent driver would be watching the other traffic lights for their change from green to orange, or if that’s not possible then the other traffic slow and stop… then (for me in the auto) slip it into D and be ready with the handbrake. 

Simples…

 

Dead right but there are a lot of dozy sods out there

My present automatic car has “D” to the rear of the travel of the selector, the opposite end to “P”. In fact, I think all the ones I’ve owned were that way (the first automatic I owned was in 1980, a Hillman Hunter with a 4 speed Borg Warner box, I’ve owned quite a few since).

If in “P” the selector has to go through “R” then “N” to get into “D”. This involves pressing the footbrake pedal hard, also pressing the release trigger on the selector. It makes the reverse lights flash, as well as increasing the delay in driving off. I wouldn’t want to get rear-ended with the lever in “P”, even slightly - something expensive in the transmission would probably get broken as well as any body damage caused. So I only use “P” when parking…

But as a regular driver of an automatic car as well as my manual MX-5 plus a couple of other manual cars we have kicking around, I certainly don’t ever cause delays when setting off from the lights by sitting in neutral in any of them - I watch for the “get ready” signs well before the opposite lights change to red (that car can also go from 0-60 in about 5.8 seconds…).

There’s a reason why the traffic lights go from red to amber to green. Amber is giving you warning that the lights are about to go green. You put the car in gear (or “D”) and prepare to release the handbrake/footbrake. When the lights change to green then you can go. Any competent driver can do this in the couple of seconds between light changes. Unfortunately, too many people think that an amber light means you should already be moving. I’m pretty sure no-one is in such a rush that those couple of seconds will mean you will be late for wherever you’re going but frankly, if you are cutting things that close, you’re already late!  At least it’s not like in the US where the traffic lights go straight from red to green.

I’ve just picked up on this thread - very interesting, and with the odd off piste tangent being found too (as usual on this site).

I’ve been driving automatics off and on for 45 years, and the thought of putting the car in neutral whilst stopped at traffic lights or whatever has never crossed my mind - nor have I ever had anyone suggest to me that this should be necessary.  I have never had problems with wear in a 'box, or had an accident with ‘creep’.

I would also like to add that I have never had problems with being dazzled by cars in front of me, even at night, keeping their brake lights on.  An optician told me once, that if car lights constantly dazzle you at night, sometimes with starburst effect, that there is probably something wrong with your eyesight, and you should have it checked out. 

Threads like this, and the variety of comments that they produce, really highlight to me, the vast difference in human beings’ thought processes.  Keep them coming guys - it’s great fun!

    

 

off piste again. 

An important point made there by Chris to all you other wrinkly 5ers; I had a problem of night time dazzle, the optician sent me to the eye clinic which has, ever since, treated me. Without this sort of treatment you will possibly develop full blown glaucoma!!

Call me a scaremonger if you like but…

Check it out folks.

Double post. Again. Spent 20 mins writing it, took 1 minute and 30 seconds to load, followed by ‘Error 404, not found’.  Returned to thread, post not on so did it again to find the original then appearing.  Seems a bit silly. 

 

Just timed this short text which took another 34 seconds to load.  Even sillier.

I suppose maybe increasing age gives rise to relying on long held habits which may become less relevant with changing traffic conditions. If you believe that you’ll believe anything. But it does seem to be gaining ground as a reason for condemning elderly drivers to the ubiquitous buss pass brigade.


It’s about time an in-depth study was made of the reaction times and general road spatial awareness differences between age ranges. Oh, nearly forgot to mention the ridiculous obsession with speed limits suddenly becoming a compulsory minimum target to be reached – and largely exceeded - within 10 yards of leaving a traffic light changing to amber, let alone green. 

Just a minute, that study has in fact been made.  It’s called Motor Insurance and is masterfully controlled by those whizz kids called Actuaries.  With the great god Money decreeing in the eleventh commandment that Thou Shalt Never Make a Loss, it’s all in the Insurers’ bible (called a Rate Table). The more likely you are to be the cause of an accident the more you pay.  Guess which age group pays the most.


Ever been left at the lights by a buzz-box on fat wheels only to, with consummate grace and elegance, pulled alongside him at the next set? How satisfying is that?
As an afterthought, if my brake lights blind a following driver he is too close.       

 

In terms of wear, on a typical torque converter equipped gearbox it’s moot I would say. 

Going in and out of neutral will operate the clutches or brake bands but they don’t slip on operation like a manual clutch and they aren’t loaded at that stage, so wear will be immaterial. 

On the other hand, leaving it in D will continue to churn the fluid and generate heat, the great enemy of gearboxes - but no much heat, and not for very long.  Best avoided perhaps after a long climb or tow, otherwise not a worry.

I do both in my ‘other’ car, a Mitsubishi Outlander with a fluid torque converter.  If the brakes are hot, not often the case with me, I don’t like clamping the discs as they cool (some people think this causes warping) so I will use N and the hand brake. 

Safety is a separate consideration.  The ‘standard’ way to operate an auto seems to be to leave it in D with foot on brake, and I can’t see this changing.  Sitting with a car in gear there is always the possibility of inadvertent movement, so I would never leave the gearbox in D with the hand brake on, only the foot-brake.  I will use N and the hand brake if I expect to be stopped for more than a minute or so, OR if I have someone queuing behind me at night - a trio of lit up brake lights at short range is no good for anybody’s night vision, whether they are ‘dazzled’ or not.

I looked in Roadcraft to see what it says - nothing on this D/N point that I can find.

A note on DSG - I am not a fan.  We have one, on the boss’s Skoda Roomster.  The double clutch gearbox was invented by Porsche for racing, as it can make almost instantaneous sequential changes, not specifically as an automatic.  Because it is more efficient than a torque converter (though not in my opinion always more effective) the concept has been developed to mimic the functions in use of a traditional TC auto.  It’s a fudge, especially in the simulation of creep, which it achieves by slipping its clutch. It’s a pain in the neck for slow, close manoeuvring because if the brake is touched it backs off the clutch instead of maintaining the creep, there is then a pause while it finds the biting point again.

The handbook for the Roomster cautions against “holding the car on the accelerator” and specifies foot firmly on brake when stopped.  The foot-brake when stationary fully disengages the clutch.  It’s quite noticeable than the hand brake (manual on the Roomster) does not immediately disengage the clutch fully when stopped if the car is left in D. It remains at the biting point for some time, creating wear and heat, until the programming backs the clutch off.

Clearly the programming has been continually tweaked to improve the illusion whilst at the same time limiting wear, but it often has me thinking “what’s it doing now?”  When combined with an electro-mechanical computer-controlled hand brake as in my daughter’s Audi A6 it’s even more unsettling, although I have no doubt that a regular driver will inure to it.

On the other hand, I nearly always know what the MX-5 is doing, because I am doing it (glossing over the DBW throttle, ABS, EBD, DSC and TCS!)

“As an afterthought, if my brake lights blind a following driver he is too close”

 

Agreed, Fidder.  The issue is when you’re sat at night in a stationary queue of traffic.  Even allowing a decent ‘tyres’n’tarmac’ gap to the car in front, it’s very annoying to be dazzled by brake lights constantly on.  Just use the parking brake.

It even gets a mention in the Highway Code (Rule 114) - “In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again”.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158

As with most of these issues, it’s just common sense and courtesy.

Steve

1 Like

Exactly, the operative words being ‘…once the following traffic has stopped…’ The fact that the car behind has stopped means your lights have done their job and are no longer needed for warning purposes.

I would only query the use of ‘parking brake’ - being Park in the auto or handbrake.  My MX h’brake engages on three/four clicks whereas my daily d. takes six but still is not an MOT issue.