Sounds like you need to speak to a solicitor about a negligence claim.
Some of my friends are aghast that I work on my brakes rather than trust a garage, this thread is evidence why I do them myself! To have the brakes fail twice is really alarming,all most of us want from a garage is honest work on our cars which will keep them safe, seems it’s just too much to ask…
Hi MLF
Sorry to hear of your saga of problems. I hope that you are OK after the tree incident.
Agree you need legal advice. If you are an AA or RAC member, they may be able to help?
Came across http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0046-1011.txt so contact with local trading standards may be worthwhile?
and http://www.claims4negligence.co.uk/personal-injury/car-accident-compensation-claims/ a no win no fee set up.
All the best
Frog
MLF -
Key question - where’s the car now? You need that if you want to pursue this legally, it should be independently tested PDQ by a qualified person. I don’t know how or who I’m afraid, but the car is (or should be ) proof of negligence and you shouldn’t let it go to a scrapper or someone you can’t trust. In my opinion you should check with a good lawyer immediately, and if necessary slap a court order on the car to prevent it’s destruction. The car is vital evidence if you want to take this to it’s obvious conclusion. Have you contacted the police at all? - They may be able to help, but a lawyer seems to be the way to go for immediate advice.
I’m surprised, but not totally, at the attitude of your insurer. They have or can get an independent assessor to examine the brake system on the car, as if they can prove negligence they should be able to cover their costs by pursuing this through the courts - obviously they can’t be bothered, which I’m afraid is often the way if you didn’t go for a good insurer.
My guess - the garage didn’t replace any parts damaged by the cross-threading, they just nipped it up and called it solved. This joint has later failed catastrophically. If that’s the case, then in my view the garage has been extremely negligent, to the point where legal action is justified. I would be getting a good lawyer onside as soon as possible.
However … Don’t take this as criticism, but if it goes down a legal route, you will need to have good answers to some questions about your own actions. If the brake warning light covers the handbrake and warns of low fluid level (as many modern cars do), why did you continue to drive the car with the warning light on, even though you knew there was an issue with the brakes? The answer will be in the handbook, and the law would expect a reasonable person in control of a vehicle to be familiar with the operation of the basic warning lights. Also, a court won’t be interested in how busy your/her job was - if the problem were as serious as you are suggesting, then a reasonable person would have made the time to contact the garage and not driven the car until it was fixed. They may try to argue that your negligence contributed to the series of events: not the cause of the problem, but you didn’t act to mitigate the effects. Forewarned is forearmed.
That’s not having a go at you, as I am sure many people would have done exactly as you did. But it’s a warning of the line of questioning you may have to face if the matter ever comes to court or if the insurance people investigate fully. FWIW, on the basis of what you have told us, I think you have been treated appallingly and I wish you well.
Please keep us informed.
If the brakes failed due to a fluid leak on the brake pipes the garage replaced then you might have a case however anything else then the garage would in no way be liable .
Did the warning light for low brake fluid come on prior to the accident ?
The most important thing is you are still alive .
At times like this you find out how good your insurance company is , if the car is a write off then a settlement cheque should soon be on the way .
Thanks for the replies.
The car has hardly been used the last couple of weeks and when taking it out today (I was only 10 minutes from home) I did not notice the warning light on prior to the incident. I did check afterwards and it was on, and the brake fluid appeared non existent in the well…
that sounds a real nasty tale of woe; can’t offer any advice but I hope you resolve the claim to your satisfaction & pleased to hear you came out of it without serious injury.
good luck & happier future motoring to you & yours.
Good post, Zulu. Anyone driving a car should have at least a basic knowledge of how it works and have a good understanding of all the instrument and warning lights. Most of what you need to know should be in the owners manual. In addition the car driver should regularly check things like fluid levels and tyre pressures. I fear that you may be torn apart in court if you cannot prove you have done the basic checks and have a good understanding of the warning lights in your car.
Hope you are recovering OK, MyLeftFoot.
Gra
After everything that’s happened. You drove the car with the brake warning light on, and you’re surprised the brakes failed?
The car was apparently fixed, and all seemed well. No light showing. After the accident, the light was showing; joint failed during hardbraking, or the damage to the car also further damaged the braking. There is a Reasonableness test; is it reasonable to assume that after a brake problem was reported, that the garage fixed the problem.
Oops, I mis-read that.
It is going to be down to how far you want to take this. I would suggest the very first step is an independent engineer’s report on what caused the issue. Only once you have this information can you take the next step.
Appreciate the replies.
So today I’ve spoken to Motorcodes, which the garage are part of. I already had a case opened following the first brake failure. I am paying £195 for a certified and independent engineer to assess the vehicle. They seem helpful and stated that so long as the report confirms my suspicions then I can then put in writing to them what I want done. My understanding is that so long as I can justify what I ask for ie lost pay, expenses, initial repair costs etc then it’s up to Motorcodes to enforce the garage’s compliance. This is a condition of the garage being part of the code of conduct they adhere to.
The recovery place have already been instructed by the insurance company that they are collecting the vehicle tomorrow to get it scrapped. Waiting for my partner to get home to call them to put a hold on this (stupid data protection act). I’ll add the storage costs to the expenses column…
I must say that I’ve gone around the houses today to get answers about my rights. CAB were helpful, told me about my rights under ‘the sales of goods act’. I did call a ‘no win, no fee’ number but they suggested I went through the legal route via the insurance…they were miffed when I told them they weren’t interested…
In my experience, Motor Codes are not inclined to the car owners’ interests. This based on one experience only.
You say your insurance company won’t pay up as it’s “mechanical failure” daft question but have you read your policy documents and terms and conditions as that will clearly state what they are liable for also contact the insurance ombudsman for advice and as for the garage go get yourself a copy of auto express and look up the watchdog section and the contact them they will help you get a resolution good luck
Hi, the insurance company are paying out, but it was the ‘legal protection’ that we paid extra for that we were most miffed at. Just assumed that they would take up the case or at least advise us etc.
So anyway, the vehicle is being inspected on Friday. Will await the report then crack on with whatever I need to do.
Waiting with baited breath !!!
Hi all,
So I had the inspection carried out by DEKRA. Here’s the main bit of the report:
" The vehicle was inspected in the open and in good light conditions specifically to examine the brake system.
A trolley jack was used to lift the vehicle to inspect the underbody components, no dismantling had taken place.
Impact damage was evident to the N/S/F corner resulting in damage to the N/S/F wheel, tyre and suspension.
The brake master cylinder reservoir was found to be empty of brake fluid.
There was no resistance to the brake pedal when pressed and continued onto the floor.
A visual inspection of the brake callipers, pads, flexible brake pipes and metal brake pipes was carried out.
It was noted the rear brake discs appeared to be reasonably new, the rear calliper retaining bolts were new.
Both the front and O/S/R brake components were in a satisfactory condition with no evidence of any defects or brake fluid leakage.
The N/S/R brake back plate, brake pipes and outer section of the rear axle beam were damp, from touch and smell appeared to be brake fluid.
The brake fluid appeared to have originated from the N/S/R metal brake pipe union to the flexible brake pipe which connects onto the brake calliper.
Conclusion / Opinion:
There has been loss of brake fluid which has resulted in loss of brake pressure.
The surrounding area of the N/S/R brake calliper is damp resulting from brake fluid contamination.
The evidence suggests fluid has leaked from the N/S/R metal brake pipe union to the flexible brake hose".
So I’m now putting together my claim against the garage, via Motorcodes. I’m told that once I submit this, they’ll assess it and advise both myself and the garage from there. If I’m not satisfied, then I can go to arbitration. From there, smal claims court awaits. With the burden of proof in the latter being ‘on the balance of probability’ I find it hard to believe I’d be anything other than successful in my claim? My partner is shopping for another car this weekend, can’t come soon enough as she’s been using my '5 as a daily! Oh the pain and worry of where/how she’ll park and so on. She also mentioned about another mk1 owner flashing her and waving the other day and wondered if she knew them…groan.
I’m a bit puzzled here. In your original post, you said the car failed on front brake pipes, and the garage replaced them for the MoT. But the DEKRA report you quote talks about a fluid leak from the n/s rear brake union. Am I missing something, or are these two totally different things?
[quote] Both the front and O/S/R brake components were in a satisfactory condition with no evidence of any defects or brake fluid leakage.The N/S/R brake back plate, brake pipes and outer section of the rear axle beam were damp, from touch and smell appeared to be brake fluid.
The brake fluid appeared to have originated from the N/S/R metal brake pipe union to the flexible brake pipe which connects onto the brake calliper.
[/quote]