Dirtyhabit Build + Perfecting the ND = Change Everything

Is that the JDL 4-2-1? If that’s what I think it is then it’s on my shortlist, but I need runner lengths and primary and secondary diameters.

I guess that leads loosely to my current ‘ethos issue’… with this project Im hesitant to buy the same thing twice. I.e i dont want the head off again, Whats been done has to be good enough. I don’t want new wheels. Whats been done has to be good enough.

So given the choice I would happily buy an intake manifold…Im worried about re-spending on the exhaust manifold especially if it’s just to confirm my theory :joy:

Maybe someone wants to swap? Lol

Took me a few second to clock the subwoofer on top is a carb :joy::joy: this was an unequal header design then?

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No Idea, but carb was right up against the head, a big hole under the two progressive chokes, then this inlet manifold for the 32DFM.
In that pic the pipes look roughly equalised.

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Mex was almost perfectly symmetrical header 4-2-1 but had a tendency to get hot at the bottom and simply melt leaving you with 4-2-0.

Here are the specs, unfortunately it’s not made anymore

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Am I reading that as 15 inch long primary, into 15min secondaries?

If that’s the case thats roght ball park for my math. But will need to see if there’s dofferent forms for 4-2-1

So is that JDL? You did t say

Ah thanks. I learn something every day! That explains why the stub was a repair.

The repair fitted the Capri GT 2" straight through pipe nicely, provided I added a bit of scaffold pole (maybe 6" long) between the manifold and the pipe and a couple of long studs holding them together. (Bitsa.)

You might of already seen it.on an episode of wheeler dealers elvis priestly made a manifold for a caterham they were restoring.he explains and shows the theory behind his design. It will be available somewhere. :man_student:

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ok going the other way - what if i made the primaries shorter on the 4-1 (goes against the usual school of thought).
but in doing so, changes where the pulses are. i’ll be targetting the 2nd harmonic at peak, instead of trying to get the 1st (best) harmonic at peak. in turn, this also can remove the destructive troughs.

it looks like 10" is a good lngth, but 11 or 12" would be better.
a very short 4-1!
there are some examples out there, see below.

and below - the math with the 4-2-1 options. this changes the harmonics.
assumption 2 - ‘‘4-1 is better for top end’’… yea but, at what rev range? looking at this, a 4-2-1 will be far better for this engine, based on the easily available space in the bay

Whoever pays the piper calls the tune. Would cost you another grand or three but they intend it to be wrapped.

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i actually got a response from SPS today about their intake manifold.
Not very useful to be honest :smiley:

sharing for group knowledge:

''Hi Aaron,

sorry for the late answer. Yes weh ave that manifold.

I have an ND1, with ND2 head (ported),ND2 intake manifold, and BBR ND2 cams.

  • Nice we builded also a couple of them. I really like how they handle.

From my dynos and remapping, it appears that I am hitting a flow limit at about 6800rpm. Then to 7800rpm its just holding peak bhp (maxed out cylinder fill). Assuming its not due to ports, valves, cams (as these have all been increased in size) that only really leaves the OEM inlet manifold.

  • Yes that is waht we saw also

I saw you sell an inlet manifold. Are these suitable for Naturally Aspirated applications? Do you have any dyno results?

  • Never tested, we always wanted, but we use it on the rotrex versions to see more then 300 on these cars

Are there any published sizes for the inlet runners or plenum volume and how this compares to the OEM manifolds?

  • They are as big as possible.

And finally, is this an ‘easy fitment’? Are there any custom brackets or adapters needed?

  • No they will fit direct

Jan’’

controversial…

I might go and dump my ecutek, and buy versatuner. just so i can self-map. being tied to tuners (timelines, and £ per Hour)…

Where the project is at — what’s next?

Got the car to ~213 bhp N/A on one dyno, ~224bhp on another. Solid torque everywhere, a curve I’m happy with, and a tune that behaves itself. But that’s not the end of the project, it’s just the end of this chapter. So — what next?

Long-term goal is supercharged with some silly numbers (350bhp target). The question I keep coming back to though: is the car actually ready for forced induction yet? (and i dont mean 350! lol. i just mean, a quick and dirty install for a quick power bump)

I don’t think it is. Here’s where my head’s at.

The five buckets

Bucket What
A. Side quests (non-power) Underfloor v2, bonnet vents, rear wing, bushings
B. Power side quests (N/A) Intake manifold, exhaust manifold redesign
C. BulletProof the engine ND1 head rework + forged internals + ND2 crank, run as 11:1 NA
D. S/C prep (drivetrain) Rear diff, gearbox, clutch, flywheel
E. The goal Supercharger

A. Side quests (non-power)

  • Flat underfloor v2 — welding required, brand new design

  • Bonnet vents — need fitting

  • Rear wing — still in many minds. Not sure what’s right for my taste and application

  • Bushings — wear and tear item. Nothing I can feel or hear yet, but probably time to start considering. New OEM, performance rubber, or poly — undecided

B. Power side quests (NA)

Intake manifold and exhaust manifold (design changes). Bolt-on territory, stack with everything else, fairly low commitment. but will cost some high £££ for these. in reality, good fun to be had here but i think i’ll be chasing very very low Hp return on the £.

C. The big build — the new head

Here’s where it gets interesting. I’ve made solid torque and a good NA result, but the engine isn’t flowing big numbers. Three limiting factors I can see:

  1. Valve sizes — ND1 vs ND2 is +0.5mm

  2. Valve shrouding — looks like ~1/3 of the intake valves are completely shrouded (Mazda design issue)

  3. Compression — too high (13:1+) for optimal ignition

I’m debating shipping my now-spare ND1 head off to a specialist for bigger valves, bigger combustion chambers, and porting that uses the ND1 split-port design to advantage. That addresses all three issues in one go.

There should be a torque reduction in favour of high-RPM power — but that’s fine. S/C will fill that void later on.

The plan: pair the head work with bottom-end work. Cheapest way labour-wise — engine’s out once, do everything at the same time. Forged pistons, rods, ND2 crank, run around 11:1 compression as the NA build. That gives me high RPM headroom, room to play with ignition advance, and a bulletproof engine ready for whatever comes next.

After that, everything is essentially bolt-on.

*editors note. Now im thinking about it, the valves here are everything. if the general answer from the tuner is ‘nd2 valves are as big as you will get’ then that knocks most of this bucket on the head… (ha! double pun)

D. S/C prep (drivetrain)

Rear diff, stronger gearbox, clutch, flywheel. None of these are urgent — they’re “before any high power numbers” items. Some of them (clutch/flywheel especially) could go in during the engine-out window for the big build, which would save a second labour bill later.

E. The supercharger

The goal. But it lands on a platform that’s actually ready for it, rather than fighting the limitations the current setup has.


Why NA-first

The case for the big build before any FI:

  • The car’s currently knock-limited on fuel at 13:1, i am already seeing ecu pulling timing at certain points. so any boost has to fight that same wall — just with more cylinder pressure stacked on top

  • Head flow is the bottleneck above 6,800 rpm regardless of N/A. tbh with a s/c i the RPM limit might not be in the sky (injector limitation), so maybe this isnt so bad…

  • Stock internals at 350 bhp isn’t an “if” — it’s a “when”. bottom end MUST get done. and this means the head MUST come out again anyway.

  • Tuning a SC on a high-flowing head means less boost needed for the ame power output. keep everything cooler, and extends lifetime.

Plus — there’s still genuinely a lot of fun to be had perfecting the N/A side first. N/A gains multiply later. Every bhp gained N/A is a bhp not asked of boost pressure.

OR DO I:
Just bolt on a s/c as the ‘next step’, gain 30bhp+, and then work through this list accordingly? i think thats going to be my worst option as i will be screwing from day 1 that theres power i cant access, and that i will have to unbolt the s/c again to remove the engine. just more £ in labour.
but worth mentioning as an option.

Open to thoughts.

It’s interesting what you are saying here. When I had my BBR Super 220 ND2 dyno’d, as it was not performing as I felt is should, the dyno operator/tuner stated that near maximum and at maximum revs (7800 rpm) they were detecting knock as the ECU could not retard the ignition enough. This was when using Shell “V Power” fuel. They felt that this was a cause for concern.