Interesting: Upcoming compulsory black box in cars explained
I see it’s an EU law so unless the UK implements a similar concept then it’s not something compulsory here.
I’d heard that the ones that plug into the OBD port (like you get for cheaper insurance) can cause all sorts of system anomalies over time as diagnostic ports aren’t meant for continual use.
Thanks for the heads up on this. I’ve just signed the petition.
Also it was incredibly hard to find the rates from 1st April 2024. I may be wrong but I couldnt find it on the government website, eventually found it on the Buyacar website.
Yes, I only found the upcoming prices through the Which website.
I have a bluetooth OBD dongle in my MX5 to send data to the torque app .
Some of the modern tuning boxes have a permanent OBD connection for measuring air/fuel ratio.
Not sure if the obd black boxes are any different in connection to cause issues.
I’m cynical about people who set up these petitions.
I’ve had results just talking to my MP which lead to direct conversions with a Health minister and a written question raised in parliament. You just need to get your MP enthused about the topic.
I suspect the response will be that RFL is being raised inline with some inflation index reflecting the increased costs in gathering tax etc. This is never going to get to 100,000. For that to happen, the petition would need to be signed by about one third of classic car owners.
2 million new cars a year are purchased, 55-60% of those fleet sales. Of the 800,000 private purchases, 90% are PCP or other form of lease. Most of those cars will be on some low tax tariff, no particular sympathy for luxury car owners.
I could probably find a newer source, but the number of cars over 20 years old on the road is probably about 1-1.2 million, about 3% of the national fleet.
How many “classic cars” cars are there. The FBHVC has come up with the faintly ridiculous number of 1.2 million, based on DVLA records. I think they have counted anything over 20 years old, including worthless old banger ready for the scrapheap, because basically they are a lobbyist group. The DVLA reckon 300,000.
The premise is false. “Well loved modern classic” cars will not disappear because the owner can’t pay the road tax. Shows like the NEC Classic, are stuffed full of owners pulling their wallets out and spending big on stuff for their cars, often not essential stuff. The NEC Classis Car show attracts about 70,000 people each year. They are paying £20-30 each, plus parking or the train. Well loved cars will be kept on the road.
The Historic Vehicles and Classic Vehicles Alliance put a number on the value of the UK classic car market; £18.3 billion. Assume the DVLA is right (the FBHVC is way off the mark), thats a staggering £61,000 spent each year on old cars. Even using the upper number, its £15,000 per car. People are spending a lot of money on classic cars.
The petition page map is interesting. You can see by consituency, where signatures are coming from. People are up in arms (relatively) in Kenilworth and Southam, Ludlow and Southwest Hertfordshire. Not all that bothered in Wolverhampton South West.
Their (FBHVC) definition in the past was 30+ so likely still the case.
Based on the FOIA request shared in the thread, and the most recent DVLA data on cars over 40 years old, there is a massive 700,000 gap that the FBHVC cannot explain.
ULEZ has probably finished more modern classics than VED has. The irony is that an NA is probably better than its Euro 2 class in terms of actual emissions, but Euro 2 was the best at the time, so that’s what it got.
I believe you can get a car tested for particulates and NOx, and have it exempted from ULEZ charges if it passes Euro 4. A UK NA in good condition might do it. Indirect injection means low particulates, and they have EGR. JDM cars might struggle.
I agree. I’ve just signed the petition. Thanks for flagging it up.
Best wishes, Andrew
Just an update to say there’s now a government response been added on the petitions page.
Yes, and the response confirms they haven’t read, or have chosen not to read, the petition’s proposal properly (my emphasis).
The Government has no plans to reduce the tax exemption age for classic cars from 40 to 20 years.
Colour me surprised.
They do go on to say that in the case of reducing VED for 20+ vehicles, people who drive less, pay less fuel duty, so they have more money overall… (or at least that’s how I read the full response).
Comical
One of the current high powered electric Chelsea tractors is way heavier and will cause more damage to the roads than any MX5 - but currently pays zero VED.
So despite this petition spamming multiple forums, Facebook and other SM channels, 12,582 (at last count) signed this after a month. Somehow I think it won’t make 100,000.
Meanwhile Mat Armstrong, on his second YT channel, scores 12,000 views in the first 8 minutes, describing how he is using a £1000 Wraith as a donor car to fix Marcus Rashford’s Rolls Royce…
Signed. The whole ved system is a sham, I cycle to work everyday my car is used for pleasure only and like many others on this forum etc are paying well over the odds for our vehicles used responsibly.
Be nice to see some investment on the roads but, thats another problem…
Agreed. It’s a total sham. Pure revenue generation regardless of any environmental codswallop they come out with. My last car was a 5.0 v8 and because it was a penny under 40k the tax was 140 a year. I wasn’t complaining about it but recognise the silliness what with my current 2.0 nc being double that.
I’ve always thought it should be added to fuel. If you’ve got a gas guzzler or drive thousands of miles you pay more and you can’t get away with not buying it like some do with road tax.
My Defender is over £300 a year and last year covered just 500 miles.
Or 82 pence a day.
Car tax has not been hypothecated since the 1930s; its basically being used to fund things like pensioner winter payments, state pension rises, minister’s transport, surgeon’s salaries, child benefit, policeman uniforms etc etc etc.
According to the OBR, VED will raise £8.3 billion 2024-2025. 16 billion liters of petrol/diesel are sold each year. So to replace that revenue by shifting it to fuel will add about 52pence to the cost of a liter of fuel.
But different vehicles will cause more damage to roads, depending on kerb weight. A 2000kg Defender driven 500 miles a year will cause twice as much damage to the roads than a 1000kg MX5 driven 500 miles a year, So should there be a reflection of that?
Maybe there should be a tax based on how much you use your car, ie miles. Cars in the UK average 6000 miles a year, and apparently 32 million are in use. So 192 billion miles a year; call it 200 billion miles.
So miles need to be charged at 4 pence a mile. Your 500 mile a year Defender will cost £20 a year. A 10,000 mile a year £500 Mondeo is £400 a year. Some people will be then penalised because they are not within walking distance of the train station for the £5000 a year commute. Its tricky.
There is neither sense nor reason to tax raising from transport. They have mechanisms in place and at whim any flavour government will make increases. Why? Because they know it will be paid. Face it, we are captive milk cows and will pay up. Whereas the French would set fire to the Town Hall and block off Paris and the new tax would be forgotten. Now where’s your yellow jacked?
Figured I’d just end this thread here by letting people know who may not already know/have seen that government petitions are ended early when a general election is called.
I doubt it would have reached 100,000 anyway since it had just over 96,000 still to go by its end date of the 12th of July.