Eezi bleed

 

Hi,

If it’s the brakes the Ezi bleed will be fine by itself, just fit the pipe, open nipple, press pedal to floor and return 6 times, top up reservoir, repeat for one or 2 more sets if changing fluid, tighten nipple and move on. With about 30 pumps on first caliper then 20 on each of the others you should find 1 litre fluid is fine.

If it’s clutch you can use the Ezi bleed pipe but open on the down stroke and close the bleed nipple before the up stroke manually for each stroke.

Say “down” and open it as you see the slave pushrod move. As you hear the pedal bottom out and the pushrod go slack nip the bleeder up and say “up”. After trying several different ways this bled very quickly. If you try and rely on the Ezi bleed valve air gets drawn back though the nipple threads on the return pedal stroke. The nipple is quite loose and as soon as you start bleeding you’ll see fluid around the threads. Trying to stop it with grease will not work as it will get washed out when closing during the downstroke. It’s also quite confined working in there with pipe and spanner.

I think the difference between using the Ezi bleed on brakes (successfully) and clutch (not so good) is that with the brakes the abs pump is in line and the line is longer so the return pedal stroke seems to have very little suction back up the pipe. The clutch has no such barriers and returning the pedal seems to suck quite hard on the slave.

Thank you for this instruction.

I actually bought the Vizbleed but your instruction seems to be for it as Eezibleed does not require the pedal to be depresses at all.

I assume I don not have to bleed clutch if I only replace all callipers?

Thanks,
seb

 

 

Hi, Yes, sorry, Vizi bleed is the one I meant, I was reading the thread title Embarassed

No, no need to bleed the clutch if you’re doing the brakes and works great single handed Thumbs up

So I got red rubber grease which is used for slider pins.

Should I use it on the threads of the bleeder when using one way valve with the tube from halfords? What is your experience guys.

The red grease is produced by Castrol and they advise it’s use on

Castrol Red Rubber Grease

A special, rubber compatible grease for use on hydraulic brake and clutch components where hardening or swelling of rubber must be avoided.
Useful in assembly of rubber components for brake, clutch and suspension units
This is not for slider pins or metal to metal bleed nipple use.
The advice these days is Coperslip type greases are not for lubrication and it can cause problems with some ABS sensors, I have used it for years but will stop using it on brakes.
For pins and the side tabs of the backing plates there are now inexpensive special pastes that can work at 1,000C.
Padgid Cera tec is availabe on ebay and is inexpensive and I have started using that.
SIL-GLYDE is also available on ebay and is designed for lubricating pins and padbackplate side tabs. I have not used that yet.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIQUID-LEVERS-SINGLE-USE-SIL-GLYDE-BRAKE-LUBRICANT-/320594416658?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item4aa4ea9412

This is the first time I hear about it.

Red Rubber Grease is what you would find in many rebuilt kits and I read in countless places it is meant for slider pins as they come in contact with rubber boots…

Where are you getting your information from?

On the other hand OE grease for sldier pins is uslaly silicone based or lithium soap but still can you elaborate on your source of info.

Alot poor mechanics would use cooper grease which should not be used. Those better ones would use red rubber grease in absence of very hard to get lithium soap grease, some would use hi-temp silicone grease but this one can swell the rubber and cause binding.

Mazda Mx-5 service manual calls for Red Rubber Grease on slider pins.

(BTW there are many red rubber greases on the market but 90% of them come from one producer called UOP - United Oil Products, also the Castrol one)

Thanks,

 

Red rubber grease is a vegatable oil based high melting point grease about 250C.

The crucial difference is that it is vegatable oil based whereas most other greases inc regular lithium types and copaslip are mineral oil based. It is the mineral oil that damages rubber.

Vegatable oil may sound strange but is still used for some racing oils due to its extreme natural slipperiness and it is a very good lube for metal.

Here’s the Morris K76 Data Sheet, http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodview.asp?idProduct=365

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/Downloads/TDS%20K76.pdf

Here’s Mazda’s use of it on brake slider pins,

BTW that is quite interesting.

From 03 onwards miata had 275mm brakes and it continoued to NC with same size.

No matter which service manual you check for NBfl (lets say 05 last yr. of prod.) it will still show old brake system with smaller discs and different type of slider pins and I guess incorrect tourqe values.

NC uses exactly the same slider pin (not sure about whole calipper however on the diagrams they look the same) and as such I believe the correct tourqe values are in NC service manual (seen just above posted by Rich M)

I guess I am right? Any thoughts about it?

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

I Agree

Well worth the money!

 

 

What car model and year is yours? Did all Mk2.5 have the large brakes or was it only sport spec?

I have the 2005 brake manual and it shows 255mm spec as well. Tell me your car and I’ll point you to it.

2002 and 2003 were mixed years when only Sport / Sportive and all cars with Hard-S (hard suspension) package had it. 2004 onwards all mk2.5 had it as standart.

I have 03 Sportive :slight_smile:

Cheers.

 

Ah, ok, very nice too :slight_smile: here’s a list of manuals that will keep you busy. If you want to save many of them you’ll find it’s quicker not to open them first, so right click the link and choose “save target as” and save them to your c drive.

http://www.mellens.net/mazda/index.html

The 2005 brake manual for example is here inside folder 5,

http://www.mellens.net/mazda/Mazda-Miata-2005/brakes.pdf

have fun!

and many thanks to Mellens!

Oh I know the website.

But all those manuals have wrong data about mk2.5 brakes mentioned above.

:slight_smile:

 

 

Ah, so that one is just for the 255mm brakes, and the caliper is wrong with different slider pins, and yours is like the NC? I couldn’t get a torque wrench in on the slider pins anyway so I went with what felt right, hand tight with a regular combo spanner, and a dab of Loctite.

 I have been following this thread with some interest and after Drumtochty’s post I felt obliged to throw in my twopennyworth!   Why Mazda stipulate rubber grease for slider pins is beyond me.   If the gaiters were made of rubber there may be a reason but they are made of a similar material to oil seals, steering rack gaiters, ball joint dust boots drive shaft gaiters etc. all in contact with mineral oil or grease.  Rubber grease is correct  for lubricating brake and clutch cylinders where contact with brake fluid is a concern, and the seals are of different composition.   In my opinion it is useless for metal to metal contact in situations such as slider pins.  If the use of rubber grease was as vital as suggested why do not other manufacturers stipulate similarly?   They do not.  I renewed the discs and pads on my car two years ago and the grease on the pins was certainly not rubber or silicone.  I cleaned and then greased them with Castrol molygrease.   Vegetable oil has been mentioned as a lubricant.  It was the thing to use for racing, not much else, when Geoff Duke was winning the TT on a Manx Norton.  As soon as the likes of MV Agusta, Gilera, Moto Guzzi and other multi cylinder engines appeared CastrolR as it was known was consigned to the boy racers putting a spoonful in the petrol tank for the distinctive smell.   BMC used to specify rubber grease for the suspension knuckles on the mini, 1100 etc. in the early sixties, due to the ‘plastic’ cup and ‘rubber’ cover.  The number of premature failures soon prompted a change in specification  to molygrease, same knuckle, same cover.  Manufacturers manuals do contain errors and misleading information at times, I have encountered dozens, if not hundreds over the years. Experience counts for a great deal in these situations and I for one would never use rubber grease on slider pins.  It is not my intention in any way to offend anyone, simply to express my opinion.

      Regards  Geoff Peace.

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Most other Japanese car manufacturers use Lithium Soap on
slider pins which is transparent grease of just right consistency and stickiness
but it is nowhere to get in reasonable quantities and price.

Dont get me wrong but if I would be to use anything other then mentioned above it can ba as well Red Rubber Grease for me as it can be found in repair kits and, error or not, is in service manual.

Will see in 6 months time how it holds and how are the slider pins of mine.

Will report back.

Thanks for insight.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Most other Japanese car manufacturers use Lithium Soap on
slider pins which is transparent grease of just right consistency and stickiness
but it is nowhere to get in reasonable quantities and price.

 

Dont get me wrong but if I would be to use anything
other then mentioned above it can ba as well Red Rubber Grease for me
as it can be found in repair kits and, error or not, is in service
manual.

 

Will see in 6 months time how it holds and how are the slider pins of mine.

 

Will report back.

 

Thanks for insight.

 

Cheers

 

BTW This forum engine is extremly buggy

 

 Lithium grease, mineral, exactly my point.  Castrol LM lithium grease.  Castrol CL calcuim based. used to claim to be waterproof, now, water resistant, due no doubt, to the litigation based society in which we live.

Geoff, I’m amazed to hear you put yourself above Mazda. There are many rubbers such as nitrile which resist mineral oils but many others which don’t.

 Geoff

Here is the data sheet for Castrol red rubber grease and it is based on vegetable oil and made to a Lucas Girling spec.

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/5ED1170B745316D280257796003022EB/$File/Red%20Rubber%20Grease.pdf

When I last rebuilt an MX5 caliper I put the supplied rubber type sleeve in the calipier where the pin goes in. So not a metal to metal interface on the front top but metal to metal on the lower pin if my memory serves. I do not believe the grease mentioned above is suitable for the service where the pin is floating in the rubber sleeve.

Moly grease is basically LM with moly added and the LM will melt away so possibly the Moly will stay on the pin.

Copperslip is to stop stationary metal surfaces sieving. I have used it here for years with mixed results on brake pins and now we are told it is not a lubricant and my not be wonderful with rubber!!!. It is also conductive to electricity so is not a great idea where sensors are about.

While rebuilding my Impreza disc caliper with a Subaru supplied kit there were two packs of grease / paste one red, one orange.

One to help ease the piston and piston seal into the caliper bore so ok with brake fluid and the other to lubricate the pin where it goes into a rubber sleeve and the caliper floats on the pin.

Further reading finds Padgid the brake manufacturer producing a grease, our friends on Mita net say Mazda US use Sil Glyde. These are advised to be suitable for pins and where the disc backing plate slots into the caliper slot.

Dow Corning a US automotive supplier has a special grease for brake pin applications in metal to metal applications Molycoat G35 07

http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3507.pdf

They specify different greases for metal to rubber brake pin interfaces.

This page is worth a read and clicks on various pages

http://www.dowcorning.com/content/auto/automaterial/brake-lubricants.aspx?e=Our+Materials+Expertise

So it would appear there is no one correct answer for a grease to assemble brakes but it would appear that Moly or silicone have their merits.

The next brake pad change I do I will use the padgid greae one side and the Sil glyde on the other to find out if one is better than the other.

The Dow Corning chemicals come in very large tubs so they are not a goer here.

Not too long in the tooth to learn something and change the chemiclas I use.

eddie

Dont forget to share with us the resoults of your test :slight_smile:

The quest for perfect slider pin lubrication took off for good :wink:

Got to love miata comunities all over the world.

We are uniqe bunch of people Big Smile