I don’t have a problem with paying taxes. The country has to function and it’s taxes that make that happen.
What I object to is the over taxation of one section of society in a way that damages all of us.
Watch the spin - you can bet your socks that the trade-off for not increasing petrol duty will be to sell-off the roads and then we will pay tolls on them.
Ultimatley it is in HMG’s inmterest to keep the pressure on - 'cos there is the 50% reduction in emissions to consider. So the higher costs of fuel, and the current proposals, simply are the means to this end.
And to hell with all of us …
Toll roads worry me. The main problem is that there will be an additional cost involved so that some private company can collect the tolls. That might mean a low-tech toll booth or something a bit more complicated like a black box in your car or cameras and automatic number plate recognition.
That will mean that a proportion of the money that we will have to pay will go on running the system and not on repairing or improving the roads. That’s just wasted money.
When the congestion charge was first introduced in London, around half of the revenue collected went on running the collection mechanism. Don’t know if that has improved since then.
Tolls, very easy to collect and set up if we use the example on the motorway around Dublin. There is a gantry over the road, if you drive under it, you have to pay the toll, the gentry has website and phone number on it. Toll is payable at shops (never found one) or online (did it when back in UK). When you pay you get no evidence back to confirm you were ever there, you enter your reg, you pay it. All done. No hold ups on the road, and only the one specific point you have to drive through, which can be avoided but not easilly. So how hard is it going to be to set up a gantry over major sections of UK motorways or A roads, stick on some ANPR cameras, and set up a website to take the payments.
So far as fuel charges are concerned, yes, I think the tax is too high and we pay too much on account of that. But then I also think I pay too much for my gas and electric, VAT is too high, food has gone up by a lot (so wife says), in fact everything has got lots more expensive, I don’t think fuel is the exception. Mean while as someone who has savings I get practically nothing back in interrest now, so value of those are decreasing. Also the value of my home is stagnant. I await the budget with interrest, but I suspect it will be like every other one, a non event…
A month ago when travelling fom Spain across the bridge into Portugal (Faro), we found that they had introduced an automatic toll charge. We were looking everywhere for toll booths, it was only later that we were told by a local that you had to pay at a service station. Which we did just to avoid any hassles. The point I am trying to make is, how many people don’t realise their registration has been logged and what happens if the toll isn’t paid.
I understand that we are in a financial crisis. I have two questions to ask and an observation to make:-
1 Where is all the money that comes from North Sea Oil going?
2 We were told in the 1970’s that there was enough North Sea Gas for over a 100 years, why are we now buying it from the Russians?
We need a masive root and trunk appraisal of the health/benefit system in the UK. We can’t afford to be all things to all men (and women), we never really could. We as a nation, sould stop trying to be a big country and act as our size dictates. At the end of the 19th century, Britain had a “Splendid isolation” policy, look it up. Mabye it’s time for that again. After all, if you are bleeding from an artery, you don’t offer to give blood. Let’s get our own house in order before we meddle in other people’s affair’s
As for petrol, really it’s a no brainer. Cut the duty and we save money accross the public sector. Goods and services will be cheaper ergo, we will be able to afford them, thus the ecconnomy grows, simples.
Sorry, rant over.
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This… Is very asstute. The spin, that we have been fed, hmm, since the mids 90’s.
Referendums cost a lot of money, yes. As much money as was dumped into Northern Rock or RBS? Nope… Lets examine that for a start. Neither of these toxic debts or amalgamantion of toxic debts, by either bank, was actually UK debt. To clear up the “Bad banker” spin, They weren’t by traders either. They were through aquisition and a couple of people who insisted on pushing through with the deals without due diligence. Should we have bailed them. Believe it or not, the financial sector believed it was ridiculous at the time and thus stopped lending to each other. There were to many rumours, potential acquisitions etc etc. Then we had the spin, bad bankers got us into this debt etc etc. This generated from a man who stood up in parliament and announced at the end of a very famour budget that “he had abolished boom or bust”. The very same man who in the previous year had sold off all the bullion reserves at the lowest price gold has seen in 50 years.
Fact is, the country was encouraged into debt. Fact is the country accepted debt. Now we have to pay.
Petrol hasn’t actually had a tax increase for a while. However, with the big supermarkets running roughshod over people and choosing what price to charge its a bit rich to complain to the government. Lets take Tesco for example… I live in Sawbridgeworth, There are two Tesco’s in Harlow both charging 139.9 a litre. Stevenage which is about 10-15 miles down the road is around 133 a litre. Simply because there is an Asda driving down prices because its a card only station.
I would take legislation over fuel fixing in exchange for a 2p a litre tax charge. I’m rather tired of the supermarket monopoly. Its ridiculous that we have killed millions of local businesses in exchange for conveniance. Including fuel.
If this country hadn’t allowed itself to be led in to debt, conveniance and the loss of “cash is king” through the spin kings of the last 15 years then maybe there wouldn’t be so much whining now. Fact is, its time to take the medicine.
And I don’t buy the motorists are persecuted complaint either. Unless, you are a smoker, drinker and mx5 owner. Then you have my sympathies. 
This would take me an hour to type and would probably fill a whole page of the topic.
Needless to say, Its about private corporations, pipelines, refineries, supply and demand etc etc. A lot is pipelines tho, because it has to be piped and you have to buy that time. It isn’t cheap.
So - what happens? You aren’t going to leave us all in suspense are you? Do we spend a week in a Portugese jail? Pay out a small fortune in Euros? Get deported?
Agree with pretty much everything Once has said. Our taxes have to come from somewhere and reducing fuel duty will just mean I pay greater tax elsewhere. At least rising fuel costs are reducing the number of cars on the road making driving a little bit more enjoyable.
If we cut fuel duty, there is no guarantee that the cost reduction will be passed on in the form of cheaper goods. Most goods are sold at the price that the market will bear, not the cost of producing them.
And if we do cut fuel duty we will need to replace the lost income. If we push up another tax (say VAT or income tax) that will reduce the amount of money that consumers have to spend. So we buy fewer goods, employ fewer workers, raise less in purchase taxes.
Simples it most certainly is not.
If it was that easy we would have done it by now. As for North Sea oil, it has certainly helped but it was nowhere near as lucrative as some people claimed.
I have to agree with that - older members (agewise) will remember when Purchase Tax - at 25% - was removed from white goods back in the fifties. We all thought “Good - now we can replace that prewar cooker, or buy a new fridge”. No such luck - most prices went down by a measly 5%, with some generous retailers offering 10% savings. The philosophy one assumes was - "If you would buy it with 25% P.T., then you’ll buy at at 5% off.
More - after my second redundacy, I finished up working for an Electrical Wholesaler (No names here!) We stocked, among many other electrical items, what’s called ‘Control Gear’ made by a French company. One of our best customers rang up one day and asked to speak to our Manager, he later told me what the conversation was about - Apparently this company also had branches in the States and in Europe, and they decided to do a cost excercise right through the areas to see what items were costing them. Turned out the Control Gear we sold was 20% cheaper in Europe than we could buy it from the UK branch of the French manufacturer. The local buyer was pretty uptight about this, and he demanded a meeting with a senior representative of the French Company here in the UK.
We never heard the outcome of that meeting, but subsequently the area Rep of the French Company came in to see me, and I asked him “Why the cost difference?” he replied “Treasure Island”! and smiled. I said “Which means what?” England is treasure Island to the rest of the world" he replied, adding, “foreign companies (including his) will mark products up in the UK to what the market will stand, and England is a lucrative market for anyone from outside”.
Go back a decade or two, and remember when people were buying cars in France and Germany because of the cost difference there was in the UK?. So - a lot of people were getting rich, thanks to us gullible people.
More - go to any supermarket I shop at Asda and Tesco mainly) - it’s now a time consuming excercise especially at Tesco, to find an English vegetable, they come from Morroco, Chile, Namibia. and Lord only knows where else in the world - the list gets longer every week. The price - as Martin’s wife has commented - goes up nearly every week, and in some cases exceeds the cost of fresh English produce at the one remaining independant green grocer in Long Eaton - our alternative shopping area (what’s left of it)., Again - somebody is getting rich at the expense of Joe public, they have taken over the market and now we are paying the price they demand.
I would go to a farmers market - there are several in Lincolnshire, but any saving would be offset by the rising cost of petrol - - - - - 
Interesting stuff. I’ve no idea where this group came from. The other interesting question is just who is spreading rumours about them and trying to discredit them? The Government or the oil industry?
We could make a great conspiracy theory about all of this.
Dear FairFuelUK Supporter
We imagine that, like us, you are angry and disappointed by the failure to act on petrol & diesel prices in this afternoon’s Budget.
The Government has not listened to our evidence that it could have reduced petrol & diesel tax AND been no worse off in overall revenue. This is a ‘slap in the face’ to every family and business in Britain.
Our view is that the failure to scrap the fuel duty rise is the ‘Bombshell in the Budget’. It will do immense damage to families and businesses.
Yes, we are angry and disappointed – but we are not giving up. If today’s failure to act shows anything is shows this – we need more support than ever.
If you share how we are feeling, please spread the message by every means you can that FairFuelUK needs every family and business behind it. We HAVE to fight back. We need everyone in Britain that cares about the crippling damage being inflicted by high petrol & diesel taxes to actually sign up at www.fairfueluk.com.
Every signature makes our voice more powerful. We currently have 220,000 supporters but need thousands more.
To make George Osborne life more difficult and get the vital change in thinking on fuel duty we need an even bigger show of ‘people power’.
Quentin Willson and the FairFuelUK Team
The FairFuelUK campaign is backed by the RAC, the Road Haulage Association RHA, the Freight Transport Association FTA and the country’s leading fuel card specialists the Fuelcard Company . It is supported by over 220,000 members of the public and over 150 Parliamentarians.
Budget - Petrol up by 3p per litre : Vehicle excise duty to increase : and Pension tax allowance to be capped at £9,000. - - Now how much do you want to give away?
@Gerryn - good stuff. Wholeheartedly agree.
One story I liked was about the high street shop Chelsea Girl. Not the sort of shop that I normally frequent, but I liked this story. Apparently Chelsea Girl was really popular during the 1960s, but faded after that.
They employed a marketing consultant who told them that their image was too cheap and cheerful for the modern label conscious market. The consultant recommended that they should change their name to River Island, and change their shops so that they sold fewer lines more widely spaced apart. Oh, and they should put up their prices to give the impression that the customers were buying quality. The result was that the customers flocked to this exciting new store and paid higher prices for the same clothes that they could previously have bought for less. And felt good about it.
Another story. I was in an off license and overheard this conversation:
Customer: I’m having a dinner party tonight and would like a bottle of red wine. Something around £10 would be good.
Assistant: We’ve got a special offer on this wine today. Really good value at £7.99.
Customer: But I was looking for a bottle at £10.
Assistant: Yes, but this stuff is very very good. I can sell you several bottles at £10 but they won’t taste as good as this one.
Customer: No, I do want a £10 bottle.
Frankly you couldn’t make it up. Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies.
Sorry - I ought to clarify. When I said I agree, it was to your post about the cost being set at what we are prepared to pay.
What I don’t agree with is the fair fuel price rhetoric. Their arguments simply do not stack up.
Pity that our last two posts crossed in the ether!
This increase was brought in how long ago again? It has been suspended for how long again? None of which explains the wild variance in petrol prices dependant on where you live. There is zero justification for 6,7 or 8p differences in a litre of fuel supplied by the same establishments.
Pension tax I completely agree with. Fuel duty I don’t. Its way below the rate of inflation given how long since it has finally been allowed to happen. Quentin should focus on the price fixing instead. He would get more support on that matter.
Edited for an amusing typo.