MX5 Mk1 RS Limited - Opinions wanted

Buying a ‘5 and Insurance advice Buying Advice
21

It’s very interesting to read what you say about mileage. It wouldn’t have worried me at all buying an MX5 with a mileage of 125k miles and in fact I would have been a bit more suspicious of a car with a very low mileage as in my view cars ideally should be driven regularly over reasonably long distances with most of the miles done after a proper warm up period ( I always smile when an advert indicates that an elderly lady seller who only ever drives to the local shops will add value). Although I will admit to having only ever bought one MX5 I have looked at a very large number of adverts on various sites and it seems to me that owners of very low mileage cars expect to gain a significant premium as a result of the low mileage regardless as to whether this confers a true benefit to the purchaser. Admittedly there will be less wear on the interior and probably less blemishes to the paintwork but I am not convinced the price inflation is justified and the low mileage might deter the new owner from putting too many miles on it in case of perceived depreciation. My suggestion that £9,000 was a lot to pay for a car of that mileage was not on the basis that the car was less worthy but more a reflection that sellers generally expect to get more for low mileage cars. However I am happy to defer to people with more “real life” experience of this market.

Cheers

Matt

22

To be fair, for an import, the odometer reading should be disregarded, as generally it cannot be validated.

Generally, in Japan, the cars cover 6-8000kms per year. So a fresh import 1994 car would likely have around 180-200k kms on the clock.

23

Any link to the car in question?

Have you seen the R-limited in white that good wood sports car have for sale, a fresh import?

24

 

Well, only Goodwood have. The only photos provided are of a slightly scruffy other white R-Limited. I’ll take it someone will have to buy on the basis of a promise. The importer might not have any good photos to show, but he has an Auction condition sheet, which, if the car is as good as they it is, should show it as a Grade 4 or better.

 

Correct roof would be dark blue with a tint to the window.

25

I think i saw it on ebay or their facebook page, and mentioned it had landed in the UK.

I fairly interested in this conversation around the RS, being a RS owner myself, although my one is in bits and pieces at the moment (long term project lol)

26

Hey Snapper - your Inbox is full as trying to PM you Smile

27

Pm’s all cleared out now

28

Gosh at that price I need to find some Recaro seats for my RS 

The RS is a great drive but as others have mentioned it the same to drive as the R Ltd. The S special has 14" wheels

The Recaro seats change hands ( or is it Bums ) for over a thousand pounds !!

As far as prices go good Mk1,s are on the up.

Look at the current prices for a crappy Mk1 Ford Escort let alone a Mexico 

At the end of the day get a test drive in the RS and a standard Mk1 and make your own mind up how you spend your money, its no good in the bank.

Are there any other cars for the price that you fancy as being fun and a potential investment.

Good luck with your decision

29

I don’t agree. mainly because you are completely wrong - if a Japanese import looks spotless underneath with no corrosion on suspension components and visibly shiny bolts and nuts where the BZP coating has not been corroded, one can safely assume that corrosion in unseen places is limited. ‘Of course the underside will look shiney-ish’ - why? - what a silly comment. How many UK car do you know with shiney-ish undersides. Easy to prove with a camera inside the sills as if it would be needed - perhaps the importers should be informed that they are wasting their time because SAZ says the cars painstakingly imported at high cost are not worth the extra money.   

The assertion that such a vehicle may have paper thin sills is very misleading to the OP and anyone else who may be looking to pay a premium for an imported vehicle that could well last 15 - 20 years before suffering UK rust issues.  

 

We are doing well tonight SAZ, aren’t we - is this some sort of self righteous anti-import campaign?. I bought my UK spec 1997 MK1 1.6 back in 2002 but am the first to accept that I made a big mistake. Recent changes in the UK now mean that apart from the MOT mileage history on the certificate(4 years), most people are aware that a ten year MOT history is available online. Japan does not have these facilities so absolute confirmation of a vehicles mileage is often not possible. Having accepted that, disregarding an import car’s mileage is a rash move as it assumes the mileage has been tampered with and/or the speedo head replaced which is possible but highly unlikely. If it looks rust free with low mileage the chances are it probably is. I imagine the only Arthur Daleys in Japan are the Englishmen bidding at the auctions:-)

 

30

Hi DickieRltd,
Thanks for your post. In a way you have answered the question as to why RS Limiteds are a costly car to buy. A great deal appear to be missing the essential parts that make it an RS Ltd. Either the wheels are wrong or the seats are missing. You certainly still have a fab car though but I suggest you find some Recaros asap.

31

 

You couldn’t be more wrong.

32

Disappointed in you SAZ - i have watched you sat on this thread for hours and that is the best you can do. More respect if you had just admitted you were wrong.

All  those import cars since 1997 but how many were fresh imports in the condition I would require them to be in if paying top money. You could make a point if a fresh import, ‘shiney-ish’ underneath car had let you down personally with a premature rust issue. Obviously once a car has tasted UK salted roads and the sills are chemically infused there is no way back - the rust clock is ticking. The main point of importing a car in the prescribed condition is the added longevity of that vehicle due to no rust. If you are saying I am wrong and you are correct, the import business at Autolink. AK Automotive, etc should end as no justification in paying 2 - 4 times as much money as readily available UK models? In truth we both know that is not the case. 

Metal corrosion is a complicated phenomenon. It changes the electrical properties of surrounding metals and can act rather like a cancer. I realised this many years ago during a misspent youth with hours of quality time spent foraging in scrapyards when renaults, fords, citroens and vauxhalls were the car of the day. Metal car parts that are completely protected display more signs of corrosion in a generally neglected and corroded vehicle than those of a well looked after, less corroded example. a sympathetic corrosion that could no doubt be explained fully by someone who really understands the science. The point is that the vehicles I was clearly referring to in my original post are examples from japan where moisture and chemicals have had so little impact that the underside of the car shows no real corrosion. even the relatively poor BZP protection on bolts is still present. The sill rust you present would not be possible on such a car.

You also suggested that the low mileage on some import vehicles was misleading - care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion and how that could possibly be a common scenario.   

 

             

33

I don’t know you,

34

Goodness me - a late night to produce that.

I simply disgree with you and hard though it might be to accept, that is not wholly personal. I don’t like your style which is generally one of control and a lack of gratitude but realise your posting helps some people. The posting on this thread is a clear exception.

Imported Japanese cars with low mileage are likely to have genuine mileage. Even though this is unlikely to be validated. I would be interested to hear how there could be an exception to this with or without tampering, who would bother and how this could be done today.

Imported Japanese cars with undersides that are shiny where there is no corrosion are likely to have sills that are not paper thin and as rust free as could possibly be found. A camera probe should be used to confirm this and also ensure no sill repairs.

My next MX5 if I cannot keep mine going for at least another 20 years will be a fresh import Eunos if at all possible. We know where yours will come from so perhaps these hypocritical assertions about mileage and sill condition are indeed self serving. Reminds me of the dealer guff about Eunos cars to put people off purchasing them back in the day. You won’t be able to get parts for that grey import and the insurance will be very expensive, etc.

Get over yourself man, I certainly have!            

35

We appear to have drifted off subject, may I remind everyone of the original thread and respectfully ask that you address that rather than personal tittle tattle and point scoring!

Thanks

Any views on the famous Mk1 RS Ltd.? I’m considering buying one. It is totally rust free and has the correct Recaro seats and BBS wheels etc. It is quite expensive though (circa £9k and 125k miles). She won’t be a “garage queen” as I intend to drive her regularly during dry days in the summer. Any feedback good, bad or indifferent from members would be appreciated

36

I purchased an 1993 Eunos S Limited from MX5 Restorer for £4k.

The car was/is very sound even after being in the UK since 2003.

I commissioned work (prior to collection) amounting to £3.5k. This included the proper replacement of the inner and outer sills which had started to show signs of bubbling. Much of the work required was routine replacement due to age - new hood, clutch etc.

This year the car has been stripped back and resprayed and I have spent c £2.7k on this.

Now…is the car worth £10.2k. No it is not. But it is how I want it and I am quite happy with the money I have spent. The car is in exceptional order and I hope I have preserved a limited edition car for many years to come.

I wouldn’t expect to be able to sell it for £10.2k. It would be unrealistic for this edition.

 

Now the point of this is…whilst my car was undergoing work and I had committed to buy the S Limited from MX5 Restorer they had the RS Limited (that was later sold for c £9k at the OC meet) come in.

Had I not committed to the S Limited I would have snapped their arms off to buy the RS for £9k.

So is it worth it…yes it would have been to me. I suspect a well sorted RS is worth £9k to quite a few of MX5 enthusiasts.

 

Grant

 

 P.S.  My car is a bit of “garage queen”. Mainly because I have significant back problems and also because the car wouldn’t be practical for my work. That said, I enjoy driving it whenever I can and have no concerns about reliability. 

37

Hi Snapper

How important to you is the value of the RS when (if) you come to sell her ? Putting aside previous comments about mileage there is a risk that the car will devalue relatively more after a few years given that you intend to drive her regularly and may have pushed the mileage beyond   say 150,000 which may make prospective purchasers more nervous. If investment potential is not particularly relevant I suppose it depends what importance you put to having the upgrades/ special features of this edition and having these as original to the car. As others have implied you could purchase a more standard car with lower mileage and similar condition for considerably less and then add the mods yourself. Even if you had the work done professionally you would probably still be quids in. 

Cheers

Matt

38

All good fun - especially when two of the forum’s more knowledgeable contributors go head-to-head!  The nature of most forums is that things can appear to get a little heated – these debates really need to be had in a pub, with everyone getting in a round.

 I’m not sure how much more feedback or ‘views’ you need, Snapper.  Points that have been made are:

 If ‘your’ RS is all original, in every respect, then it’s probably worth £9k to someone. Only you can decide if you are that someone, and what compromises you are prepared to accept.  However, all the RS badges, Recaros and BBS wheels in the world won’t stop the usual sill rot that’s endemic in all Mk1s, so as Saz said - you need to go in with your eyes very much open.

 Even ‘fresh import’ Mk1s aren’t immune from rear sills rusting out.  I imported a VR-Limited in 2015 - and it had exactly the sort of corrosion in the O/S sill illustrated by Saz. I was a bit disappointed, but not surprised - this corrosion is caused by condensation in the complex inner structure, not salty roads.  Luckily the bodywork was pretty well immaculate in all other respects, so I got it properly fixed (and cleverly retaining the original spot weld marks), and now you’d never know. No sign at all of anything happening in the N/S sill - yet.

 So ANY Mk1 - even one new in from Japan - will need to be VERY carefully inspected for either rear sill rot, or evidence that sill work has been done, properly or badly.

 Generally speaking, overall body condition is more important than accumulated km-age. Mechanical bits are easily replaced. 

As regards km-age, I’ve been led to understand (by Andrew at Autolink) that there are far more rigorous checks and guarantees for cars at auction in Japan than would ever happen in the UK. So the balance of probability is that the km-age showing on your import is correct.  It’s a fact that very few imports come with service history - but again, with the general higher quality of car care in Japan - and the Shaken - the balance of probability is that the car has been looked after.  I was lucky - mine (on 129k kms) came with a ridiculously comprehensive Mazda service history, including dozens of individual service sheets - many with beautifully hand-written (but completely incomprehensible) notes.  Must get them translated some time.

Total cost for my car into the UK was £3.5k.  It now owes me around £5k - but would probably now cost me around £7k to replace to the same condition.  Hence it has an agreed insurance value of £7.5k.

I agree that condition, originality and rarity (in that order) all inform the price. But ‘provenance’ - really?  These aren’t rare Ferraris, Bugattis or early Porsches.

Given the way that Mk1 prices are going, it’s fair to say that if you buy a genuine and original RS - AND MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE its current condition, you probably won’t lose money.

You pays your money and takes your (well-informed) choice.  Whatever you decide - Good Luck - and Lots Of Photos please!

 

Steve

39

Hi Steve

Thanks for your post and comprehensive answer. Provenance is a bit poncy but it’s just another way of describing a cars history. As I’m sure you understand any car without some sort of history will find it has an adverse effect on price. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Ferrari, Ford or MX5.

Lots of pictures to come I hope

40

I’ve got a complete RS ltd and yes it is a very nice MX-5 to own, but apart from the unique seats it really is just another MX-5. If I was offered near 10K for it I’d have to think really hard about not letting it go. I know I’d enjoy an all original early 1.6 just as much.

And while the Recaros are cool, when ever I get in an NA with standard seats I do say “Oooo aren’t these seats nice and comfy”.