Mx5 ND2 30th - Road and Track finding the balance

Talking of unsprung weight, you may find the the following German website useful as it lists weights for tyres sold within Europe:

To search by tyre size, just put in the numbers without spacing, slashes or “R”. 2055016 as example:

You are probably aware that trackday tyres are usually heavier than those not optimised for track use.

Ah yes I have experienced very similar symptoms although I also had the same with millers aswell as the motul stuff (infact millers wasn’t as smooth in general), both were 75w90 oils. I’ve not tried motul 75w140 which a lot of the US forums recommend for gearbox longevity to take up the large tolerances in the gearbox.

The OEM gearbox oil is definitely smoother from cold but isn’t meant to offer very good protection or life when the car is used on track or even fast road use. I have some US Ford motor craft stuff that I am going to try in mine over winter when its not being used in anger which is meant to be much smoother but still offer good protection for the internals.

With the motul stuff I tend to go from 1st straight into 3rd with the shorter final drive then it seems to go into 2nd quite happily.

Ah appreciate that very useful database!

Yeah it’s amazing how much focus is put on wheels when tyres are typically heavier and vary it weight so much, the data is rarely easily accessible.

The Mazda oil is not the best to use in the gearbox. If the cold gear change is the most important aspect then use a fully synthetic 75w/80 oil. The gearboxes have a variable build quality so the use of a high quality oil is recommended.

I bought mine on 13k, and about to hit 28k. Changing the oil for a third time soon and use Millers 75w 90 CRX.

Do you have any issues with gear selection when started from cold Dan? I would like to try 75w 140 but can only imagine that’s worse.

I use Millers CRX 75w/140 which sometimes can be a bit recalcitrant to get into 2nd but no worse than using 75w/90 in my gearbox. Disappears after a couple of minutes and smooth as silk when hot

1 Like

No worse than 2nd and 3rd were in my ep3 or fn2. Takes about 5 miles and all good. Weirdly, like the fn2, it doesn’t seem to like being pottered about in and prefers a more direct/decisive shift.

1 Like

I have the Millers 75w90 CRX in mine and it also seems a little snatchy when cold, great when warmed up though.

Post this weekend’s trackday it seems better from cold - perhaps an indication that the oil has changed a little… will be interesting to see if there is any effect when its changed again.

Drove Sam’s car at Blyton (thanks again!) and what a thing! Really makes my car feel like a toy :sweat_smile: Also loved the cockpit in terms of aesthetics and the premium feel. Currently designing myself some seat lowering rails as they make such a difference!

1 Like

Seems to be a common trend with the thicker oils which I suppose is to be expected. I am going to try the Ford motorscraft oil (XT-M5-QS for anyone that’s interested) over the winter period to see if it helps shifting on cold starts. The US forums suggest it offers better wear protection than the OEM oil so worth a try. May then switch to the 75w/140 grade as Chris suggests for track days next year.

Thanks Adam! I still prefer the 1.5 what a rev happy little engine. Was great to share the track with you what a great event it was. Really friendly bunch and nice to have a couple of passenger rides with other enthusiasts.

Few pictures from the day at Blyton park, hope you don’t mind me sharing the ones with your car Adam, they look good together!




3 Likes

So I started to get an itch for a set of 16” wheels, I personally think they suit the size and shape of the ND more than 17’s and would like to reduce unsprung mass as much as possible, the car reacts and responds to inputs much better with a smaller/lighter setup . The 17” Rays volk racing ZE40’s that come standard on the 30th anniversary cars are wonderfully light (6.5kg – more of that later) but as with all OEM wheels the fitment is poor, being 7” inch wide and using the standard offset (ET45) they appear very tucked in without using spacers which I am not a fan of.

I run a set of 17x8” Konig Hypergams with 215/45/17 cup 2’s for trackdays which are ideal and I really like the design of the wheel. Despite being a light wheel (and tyre) for their size they are still much heavier than the stock “rays” wheels with 205/45/17 supersports and you can feel it. Mazda’s engineers worked some magic keeping the ND’s weight so low and it feels rather wrong going in the other direction. A such I put my anorak on and started to do some digging into wheel and tyre weights, incidentally its often the tyre that weights far more than the wheel!

Obviously this is based on wheel/tyres that I am considering but the information for most wheels is widely available, I find Tire Rack (https://www.tirerack.com) in the US by far the best site for tyre information/weight.

The other consideration is wheel width and tyre width/depth, I don’t want rubbing and I still want the car to be agile and adjustable. I think a 7.5 to 8 inch rim is optimal for a fast road/track car as it will provide more sidewall support yet still be relatively light. I know a lot of the track guys in the US run 17x9” with 235 or even 245 tyre widths but for me this is to extreme. Track tyres typically run much wider than a road tyre, for example a 205 track tyre will usually be wider than even a 215 road tyre. Based on what I have read, for the wheel to support the tyre optimally the tread width of the tyre should be approximately ½” less than the width of the wheel. A 205/50/16 Yoko A052 tyre has a tread width of 7.4” so is pretty much optimal for a wheel with a 8” width.

Worth a watch if you interested, that matching tyre to wheel width is important for feel/response and overall grip (lap time).

Might not be that useful to everyone but some of my research below:

Wheel Weights

Konig Dekagram 15x9 - 6.5kg

Konig Hypergram 16x7.5 - 6.5kg

Konig Hypergram 17x8 - 7.4kg

Rays ZE40 30th 17x7 - 6.5kg

Volk racing TE37 16x8 - 5.7kg

Wedsport TC105x 15x8 - 4.6kg

Tyre Weights

Michelin supersport 205/45/17 - 8.9kg

Michelin Cup 2 215/45/17 - 9.6kg

Yoko A052 205/50/16 8.9kg

Yoko A052 205/50/15 8.5kg

Yoko A052 225/45/15 9.2kg

Combined Weights

17x8 Hypergram and 215/45/17 cup 2 - 17kg

16x8 Dekagram and 205/50/16 A052 - 15.6kg

16x8 TE37 and 205/50/16 A052 - 14.6kg

OEM Rays 30th 17x7 and super sports - 15.4kg

Tc105x 15x8 and A052 - 13kg

In the end I have chosen to go with a Rays Volk Racing TE37 Sonic in a 16x8” face 4 (nice and “dishy”) ET35 fitment with a 205/50/16 A052. This setup only just clears the Brembo’s so I may end up adding a 3mm spacer at the front but we shall see what its like when I get them (on backorder so wont be delivered from Japan until early next year). They should be a nice fitment that fills the arches without rubbing and isn’t to far away from the OEM offset, super light and will be nice to retain a set of rays wheels on the car.

4 Likes

If you haven’t yet bought the TE37 Sonics, you could consider 16x8 +38 Advan RZ-II which are quite light for flow formed wheels and seem to be 5.9kg each. They’re slightly cheaper too if that matters.

I’ve had 16x8 +35 TE37 Sonics on my wish list for a long time and you may have seen my posts over at miata.net asking around for Brembo compatibility.

As you are already aware, the 16 inch tyre choices are not exactly great especially in non-track day fitment. I may downgrade from my current 205/45 R17 Bridgestone Potenza Sport to 205/50 R16 Continental PremiumContact 6. Hopefully will make the car more fun!

I worked out the above combination to be 13.53kg (without centre cap). Also, for accuracy purposes, I’d be wary on using Tire Rack’s weights since they don’t use decimal places or ounce (oz) with their pounds (lbs) measurements. They must be rounding up or down accordingly. That could be a matter of just over 200g difference :rofl:

I did consider the RZ-II another lovely wheel which allows more room but I don’t like the machined lip that most colour options offer and had my heart set on the TE37’s. I like the full concave profile the 16x8 offers.

Haha quite possibly I have trawled through that many forum posts to work out if they fit. The TE37’s suit most jap cars but look just right ok the ND I think. I’m just in for a very long wait!

What wheels are you running currently?

Yeah tyre choice is a real issue not sure why to be honest as a lot of cars still run a 16” wheel. I am planning to run them only weekend blasts primarily and maybe the odd trackday. I’ve wanted to try A052 for a while as they are known to work in damp conditions rather well and offer decent sidewall compliance. In time I’m hoping Yokohama broaden the Uk AD09 size availability but we shall see. Seems hard work getting anything at a reasonable price in the UK as well!

That would work well! I find my 195/55/16 cross climate 2’s offer a nice balance of grip/slip. I just prefer a summer tyre to have good sidewall support for feedback and steering response.

Ah good to know! I must admit I find tire rack a really good quick reference tool then usually check on the manufacturers website as well.

I put some 16" alleggerita on mine for a brief time. They’re unbelievably light and looked smart. Without coils though they did look a bit roller skate.

Did you try vip motorsport for the rays? Went over a few week ago for the cusco stuff and they seem to have a few jap wheels in stock.

I’ve got the itch for coils and snazzy wheels again

The “Hyper Black” colour which looks familiar to the factory fitted Rays ZE40 doesn’t seem to have the machined lip and is more expensive than the other colour options.

If you have not seen the concave profile of 16x8 +38 RZ-II, someone over at Miata.net posted a photo of theirs yesterday:

Factory fitted Rays ZE40s with 18mm spacers all round. Rays did offer them 16x8 +35:

https://www.icbmotorsport.com/ravorazewh162.html

However, they don’t look as concave as the TE37 Sonic equivalent. Also, Rays seemingly did not offer them in the same “Diamond Dark Gunmetal” colour.

It sounds like you’ve already bought them. May I ask who are supplying them?

If you have not yet seen the Brembo clearance with 16x8 +35 TE37 Sonic, a helpful Miata.net posted some photos a few months ago:

Ah yeah I remember you having them on the car, they are a lovely design and very light as you say (although still not as light as the TE37’s in a wider format). The alleggerita always appears slightly smaller than it actually is, wanted a set for my megane!

Yeah I tried most importers in the UK but the price was still eye opening. I got a recommendation of Adam and used https://jessestreeter.com and the price is looking very favourable indeed!

In fairness your car has always looked very good indeed, my favourite ND by far! However coilovers do help getting the car to sit just right and you can get the corner balanced dialed in which is important on the ND.

1 Like

Appreciate that Johnathan you’ve certainly done your research. I do like both the RZ-II and the TC4 they were high up the list but do prefer the TE37’s overall personally even though clearance is tight!

When I looked into it i came to the conclusion that gold was the only colour without the machined lip and the hyper black was so similar in colour to the machining that you couldn’t see it. Either way very nice wheels in arguably the perfect fitment. Appreciate the pictures :+1:.

Nice! I do really like the standard wheels, I tried to get hold of the US cup car ZE40’s from Mazda motorsport as they are only around £240 a wheel but nothing came to fruition. They are 17x7.5 ET38 I believe.

Yeah I am fully committed at this stage, I used https://jessestreeter.com/. He can get really good prices on most car parts in Japan well worth getting on contact with!

Thanks yeah I did see that one, only around 2mm clearance so may add a 3mm spacer as I mentioned. I know some OEM wheel fitment that are just as tight, although probably not worth the risk of getting a stone stuck!

Have you considered Rays CE28N? Supposedly the 16’s clear factory brembo brakes.

How do the 16’s work on a daily driver? Does ground clearance become a problem on poor roads? Nothing worse than tip toeing down a road because the car is setup for a glass top road surface.

Yeah the CE28’s are a great fitment on the ND
very nice looking wheel, I just preferred the TE37 design and the fact it would fill the arch better being 8 inches wide.

I have only run my 16” winter setup so far but clearance had not been an issue with 195/55/16. I think ultimately it depends what tyre you fit and the sidewall height of the tyre. Most 16 fitments will seat the car at a very similar ride height to the OEM 205/45/17. A 205/50/16 in theory sits only 2mm lower than the 17’s listed above (but then different tyre brands will vary and typically track tyres are slightly taller due to a squared shoulder).

I know what you mean though certainly don’t want to be scraping when pressing on.

A good resource to use to check wheel/tyre fitment:

It sounds like we both share the same preference of how a car drives. My other gripe are cars that are running tyres way too wide with so much grip that they lose all playfulness.

I found a table that someone else put together listing all the 16’s that clear brembos. I’ll dig it out and post it when I get chance.