NC heavy steering wheel is stealing all fun from my 5

Technical Area Steering & Suspension
21

[quote=Lukas78]

[quote=Scottishfiver]

The PAS system requires care in servicing it.  Any contaminants in the oil (air, water, grit, etc) can affect how the valves at the bottom of the steering column work, also the springs in there that the column works against to open the valves can collect dirt (or worse, corrosion) which affects when the valves open, the seals on the rack; and finally the rack might be seized because of corrosion.

  1. The simplest test to do is to measure the torque required to turn the steering wheel. It removes speculation and argument.

Mazda specifies a maximum of 7.8 Newton metres (58 inch pound) when standing on a hard level surface with the engine warmed up and running, having checked the PAS fluid levels, tyre pressures, and that the serpentine belt is not slipping.  Clamp a fixture (improvise something) to the steering wheel so you can apply the torque wrench to the centre.  (The manual says to remove the airbag, but that just adds complication to what should be less than a five minute job.)

2.  Another test that takes a lot longer is to jack the front wheels off the ground (chock the back wheels properly) and see how easily the steering wheel shifts them left to right and back a few times: first with engine off and no PAS; then start the engine and try with the PAS, wheels still in the air. 

If there is stiffness with no PAS there might be a problem with rack or joints. One possibility is that someone has tightened up (a relevant English word is ‘Bodged’) the adjusting cover to hide a worn pinion or rack at the centre, unfortunately it will be too stiff everywhere else.

If there is not much difference between no PAS and with PAS, then there is a problem with the PAS. 

If there is a big difference then the PAS is doing something useful, and probably OK.

If the difference is small than the full diagnostics with pressure testing etc is required, or maybe even a new rack.  Give up and pay the specialists.

 

At all times be careful.

Good luck

22

I’ll say again, it looks perfectly normal to me. It is not meant to be one finger light, epically when static. It is not an election system like say the Fiat 500 that you can put in City mode and just about blow round with zero feed back. If your wife is after something like this, you do need to change your car, or get her on the IAM course where they will insist she shuffles the wheel.

23

IAM don’t insist on shuffle anymore, times have changed…  

 

 

 

24

I recommend getting it checked out.

It sounds like you have no power steering assistance - slacken the belt and check your pump moves freely and check the reservoir for oil level and if not drained get on jacks and fully turn lock to lock with an assistant and look for bubbles as it cavitates the oil when low or has a leak.

If the engine revs drop very slightly the power steering pump is considered to be working - if they drop excessively its probably worn and offering greater resistance. Did the belt ever slip?

Could be a dry/seized swivel joint or a seized steering column knuckle joint or sh*gged steering rack so when jacked up turn one wheel and see if it has excess resistance - it should turn relatively easily side to side. While doing so see if the steering knuckle grinds/jumps/has movement.

An unlikely option but not unknown is that the track rod adjustments are all done on one side over the years thereby asking the rack to turn side to side without it being centred- another option is if the steering arms have been replaced the rack has not been centred - this will strain the steering - if this is the case then the steering wheel needs centering and the track arms and rods both then centred and then adjust the tracking using both sides.

25

This is a very interesting thread, with some logical advice from various members.

I would be interested to know if Lukas’s wife ever drove his MX-5 before he had it lowered, and if she thought it was OK then.  I never imagined that lowering the suspension would have that much effect on the weight of the steering, but if she was happy with it before the mods, then this must be what has occurred.  It would be a bit of an unfortunate coincidence if the PAS pump suddenly went ‘tits-up’ just as he had the suspension modified, wouldn’t it ?

I have always felt that the power steering on MX-5s was a little ‘heavy’ anyway, but that this was a deliberate design feature, to give the driver more feel on the road.  My wife’s VW Scirocco’s PAS is so light, that it takes a while to adjust to when I change from her car to mine, or vice versa.  Indeed, most cars I have driven with PAS, including our two previous Mazda 6 models, have had a much lighter feel to their PAS systems than either of our MX-5s. 

If the problem persists, then Lukas must either get another car, one that they both can drive happily, or maybe have the suspension changed back to its original spec, where his wife might then be OK with it again.  Tough choices though.

Getting the car professionally checked out is probably the best way forward in this case though I think - at least he will know one way or the other. 

Good luck to Lukas - I will follow this thread with interest.

 

 

 

26

Hi, I have driven four Mk 3’s recently whilst looking for a new car and the steering seems to be the same. Unlike modern cars with the elctric steering which tends to be over assisted and with little feel, once on the move the steering lightens up to a degree but gives good feed back and connection with the road.

I am unable to steer my car with one hand and if stationary the steering moves in the same way as in the video, but it still self centres after turning a corner when on the move.

I think thats just the nature of the car.

Cheers

1 Like
27

Yes. Totaly agree with you. Hydraulic power assist will be always different but give more feedback.

Guys, if I’m honest sorry for that thread. I think my steering is fine. I mean, that was my opinion before. But you know, when you meet somebody and give him to drive your 5 and then listen to his opinion or drive myself different cars, you start thinking: “maybe it is something wrong? Maybe it shouldn’t be like that?”

The more I think, the more confused I am. So I’d better stop thinking 

Anyway. Thank you for your opinions and your time. I think I was looking for a confirmation my point of view. No one among my friends or neighbours has MX5 so I couldn’t try different car.

By the way, I’ve changed a power steering fluid today (Dexron II) and ordered leather restoration kit to make a steering wheel maybe more grippy. 

 

28

Hey Lukas, I notice you are in Wellingborough. I am in Bedford and would be happy to for you to try my steering if that would finally answer the question.

 

Let me know

Thanks

Paul

 

29

I had a day off work today and managed to get the car out of the garage for a short run, anyway before i put the car away again i remembered this thread and checked my steering, static with the engine running and it was no different to the posted video,but i didn’t have the clicking sound as i let go of the steering wheel.
So apart from the ‘click’ it was the same, 17" alloys and lowered 35mm.

30

I suffer similar to the OP. I wonder what his mileage is?

Steering is very heavy, and almost impossible when the engine is off. 

Mine has 98k mil s, there are some good explanations here, around wear and tear and corrosion. I’m going to chamge the PAS fluid soon, I’ll report back progress afterwards.

31

Thanks guys for your response and drive offer

Mine is 2007 and has 93000 miles on the clock. I’ve done during last year about 15000 miles. But the thing is that I don’t remember how it was before lowering it. Today I replaced a “steering fluid”. The old one was almost black and not transparent. But I haven’t noticed any difference.

32
33

Guys,

I will say this one more time. What has been shown in that video is normal. 

If you ever owned a 3L Healey or the like, the reason you wore driving gloves is you would end up with blisters on your hands from the effort of turning the steering if you didn’t. And they had steering wheels twice the size of a modern car. 

Power assistance reduces that effort, a lot.

When in the 90’s it was realised that car buying was not the sole preserve of the male, manufactures invested a lot of time into designing cars that were lighter to drive. Small hatchbacks in particular are expected to spend most of their life in towns where twirling the wheel is expected. More up market cars may have variable power assistance.

The last thing you want in a car that has sporting aspirations is overly light, inert with no feed back. The idea that you can position the car on the road and feel what the car is doing is lost if you have overly assisted steering.

Steering is also not some arbitrary design. The position of the components, length of steering arms and so many other things influence the weight and feel before you even get to the assistance. I would fully expect an assisted car to have very heavy steering when the engine is not running or why have it in the first place. It is exactly the same with servo brakes, push the pedal a few times without the engine running and then see how hard you have to press to stop the car. 

This is very little to do with lowering.  While it is likely the set up will have increased caster angle, which will promote more self centring and weight in the steering, it certainly should not make the car overly heavy. That part is just in the design of the car. 

34

Well, agree that MX 5 was built from the very beggining as a giving fun car and not really everyday car which you use to shopping and work commuting so it can not be compared with normal hatchback. That’s obvious. 

But what is unusual for me that is very popular among women. My everyday observation tells me that they are usually at age 40-60. So I believe they are after comfort not sporty experiences. Personally I’ve never seen young chick in MX 5. In MR 2 yes.

1 Like
35

Hi just an observation, but has anyone seen a female driving a lowered Mx5? 

Even Vicky Butler-Henderson has problems handling an early Mazda Mx5 here 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eZNnVrVUAQ

Lowering would surely cause the steering to become even stiffer.

Personally, if my wife had to use my Mx5 daily, then i’d be putting everything back to stock and getting  some really good new tyres like Rainsports.

Happily, my wife does not want to drive a lovely rewarding, joyful Mx5, she wishes to be caressed all the way to work and home again.

so I keeping my Meister r’s on. And they are 10 times better than lowering springs yipie!

oops sorry . Hope you get things sorted.

 

36

Hehe  good conclusion.  

 

1 Like
37

So I tried mine tonight, tickover at a standstill I can move the steering wheel lock to lock with the palm of my hand, palm pressure is firm but it moves fine with no shuddering.

Vaughan

 

38

I’m writting the update because things have changed. Changed a lot.

I fitted new tyres. The old Michelines were almost in their minimum tread and I had an MOT. 

And … that’s it ! The steering is now much more lighter. I didn’t expect that that will cause such a big difference. 

So my problem is solved  

39

 

 

Thanks for letting us know Lukas - I was wondering how your problem was coming along (I really must get out more !). 

 

40

Good lad. Tyres being part of the whole, I suspected it was not normal looking or  sounding.

No…or little… tread “flex” would not have been helping…as has been “proved”