New speed limits

General Discussion Forums Car Talk
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E-Scooters; as I understand it, they are not legal on road, pavement or public parks. Can only be used on private land. But, as above, rental ones may soon be legal. What does that tell you about commitment to road safety? Buy one and become proficient at riding it- and you are breaking the law. Jump on a rental one with no idea what you are doing, and off you go!

Cyclists… just like drivers, some considerate, some idiots. Just very vulnerable, and often oblivious to the danger they are in 90% of the time. For safety reasons I don’t think cycling should be legal on many roads, and that mayy dictate that adequate cycle lanes be built.

Motorway speed limits in roadworks. To me, in this age of ‘intelligent motorways’ surely the speed limit should be adjusted to the risk being posed. Empty roadworks with no labourers poses a different risk profile to one with men working mere feet from high speed passing traffic. Nose to tail in three lanes all driving at 49.5mph doesn’t feel safe to me. 70+mph spaced reasonably, with driving on the left except when overtaking feels much safer.

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When I was young (many, many moons ago, I admit), pavements and footpaths were for pedestrians - in fact in Frome, ‘cycling prohibited’ signs were on all local pathways intended for people on foot. Cyclists had to use the roadways.

In the intervening decades, with the increase in traffic of all kinds on our roads, making cycling on roads more hazardous, ‘cycling prohibited’ signs have disappeared from footpaths, and they are now designated ‘cycle routes’ too, in an effort I suppose, to make cycling safer.

The trouble is that cyclists and pedestrians don’t mix, any more than cyclists and motor vehicles - it’s a fundamental speed difference in each case. Cyclists hate pedestrians because the slower pedestrians impede the cyclists obviously more rapid progress. Motorists hate cyclists for the same reason.

The only logical way to make things safer for all, is to keep them all apart, and bring in laws to enforce this.

Where cycle lanes exist, it should be mandatory that cyclists use only them, and not use the footpaths and pavements intended for pedestrians when it suits them, and should not use the roadway intended for motor traffic either.

I also think that all pedal cycles should be registered like motor vehicles, and be required to carry number plates like motor vehicles. And cyclists should have to pass a test, to ensure that they are proficient and safe to actually ride them on public highways, like motor vehicle drivers have to.

I don’t think a blanket reduction of urban speed limits to 20 mph is the answer, although this does seem to be the way local authorities are going - it’s a cheaper option than trying to fit cycle lanes into what are often narrow medieval town streets. And you can’t go around tearing down old buildings all over the country, just to accommodate cyclists, who, as someone has already written, in our ever-changeable climate, will probably revert to using their cars in inclement weather anyway.

If all road users were a bit more tolerant towards each other of course, then this discussion would be academic. The trouble is that there are just too many people wanting to use our overcrowded thoroughfares, and this overcrowding is bound to cause friction all round - it’s human nature, especially in our increasingly fast-paced modern world.

No, the best solution is segregation of users of different forms of transport as much as possible.

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That maths does not add up!

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Although there are a lot of people out there with good intentions and suggestions ,and who want do the right thing, I do wonder if anything will actually work, because we live in a world full of people with attitude , who will just do what they want regardless, make a cycle lane and cyclists will still use the road, put up a 30mph limit and they’ll do 50, 70mph on motorways, naah 90mph , single file for cyclists on narrow roads, no…3 abreast, even during the easing of the lockdown, we’re told to socially distance, so its thousands swarming to the seaside resorts, having illegal Raves and house parties , pubs having lock ins etc , and when the pubs actually opened, it was a free for all p*ss up for alcoholics especially in some parts of London…
We live on an overcrowded little island , with an overpriced public transport system , and I cant see any easy solution to our transport problems, E cars and bikes might save the planet but the congestion, road rage and attitude will remain.

Happy Holidays :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Many moons ago, whilst fishing on a canal, I had my fishing tackle ridden over by a " mountain bike " rider. He caused 100’s of pounds worth of damage to my gear. He susequently fell from his bike, and started to abuse me and my fellow anglers. We had paid for a “rod licence” whilst he had paid nothing! However he thought that we were the problem…not he !
We all have differing opinions and attitudes to our fellow “users” wether that be road, pedestrian, canal…etc.
The recent rise in cycle use is only going to end in more conflict. Attitudes must change…roads are dangerous places for cyclists, motorcyclists, horses, pedestrians…video cameras do not always show the " real " events.
With the exception of horses, we can all decide on a course of action ( unless it is a pure accident ). Perhaps Covid can change our perception on the value of life.

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Chris has a point, when I was a kid and a teenager you were always being pulled up by old bill and told not to ride on the pavement. ( how things change ).
And of course things do change but like in an earlier post councils do things half hearted, they don’t build dedicated bike lanes, they just paint a white line out from the kerb a bit, leaving all the pot holes there to cause a hazard for cyclists. The cycle lanes around my area are atrocious I have to cycle outside the white line so as not to have an accident.

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Like this bloke! :flushed:

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He wasn’t looking ahead just staring down at his front wheel

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Maybe that’s why they’re called “drop-head” handlebars. :thinking:

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I’m glad this has come up as a topic. Having grown up outside of the UK it has always baffled me how little is invested in providing for people to walk and cycle rather than drive.

As others have said, the investment needs to be in providing proper cycle lanes and cycle traffic management. When I say proper, I mean well thought through and truly usable - practical. As it is now, cycle lanes are an afterthought. Squeezed in wherever there’s a little bit of spare space. Too often you find cycle lanes that are, at best, OK for about 200 metres and then they suddenly end and you are dumped in some weird spot. This is why many cyclists choose to ignore cycle lanes. They are often short, damaged and take you past pedestrian areas and take long detours. This means it is often quicker to just stay on the road. There needs to be benefits to take a cycle lane - safe and fast. Then people will start using them. Start by building out a network for common commuting routes. Between housing estates and businesses, city centres and shops.

Training: Another difference I’ve noticed is that kids in the UK a not taught basic traffic rules or traffic sense at school. It doesn’t need to be a full curriculum, but it should be covered. Maybe I’m naïve but, I’m assuming kids go to school to learn how to live and survive (on that note, learning how to swim should be compulsory too).
People are generally ignorant and you see entire families out cycling on pavements. And yes, it is still illegal and it’s in the Highway Code. That said, do I blame them? No. I was probably one of VERY few parents who took my kids out cycling on the roads, but only after I had thoroughly indoctrinated them with typical cycling (motorcycling) rules like constant ‘life savers’ and clear indication of your intentions. Because of this, now that my kids are older and drive, they show more awareness and respect for other road users, including cyclists.

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The school I went to took us for swimming lessons once a week so we learnt how to swim ,and we also had cycling proficiency lessons at the end of which we had to take a test to get a permit to be allowed to ride to school. Good grounding for road awareness in later life.

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Seeing that video has reminded me of an incident in my wife’s car a few years ago we were both sitting in the car in a car park in Canterbury when a young lad of about 16 or17 came riding into the car park looking sideways with earphones in heading straight towards us we honked on the horn for a good few seconds , but he couldn’t hear and just rode straight into the front of my wife’s car . He was thrown over the handlebars and onto the bonnet putting a dent in it . I think this type of thing raises the question should cyclists have some type of insurance. All I can say is it’s a good job it wasn’t an active bonnet system.

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Quite right.

Cyclists should not only have to undergo training to make sure they can handle their bikes, and be safe on the road, they should also have to be registered, and need to have a licence, number plates and insurance - just like motor-cyclists.

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I watched a cyclist give a left turn signal the other day. I was quite some way behind no other cars on the road. As I turned to follow down the same road, again a left turn signal was given as he came to the next junction, still no other cars on the road. I was so far behind I reckon the cyclist couldn’t have known I was there.
I almost wanted to catch up and congratulate him/her on their good road manners how often do you see that?

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As I’ve heard there are bike-riders and cyclists. The first category are the usual run-of-the-mill person who just buys a bike and rides off into the sunset. A cyclist is quite likely to belong to a cycling club many of which have compulsory training in roadcraft for new members (an un-official version of the course motorcyclist have to take) also many have insurance cover included in the membership, they will also be highly aware of maintenance requirements, and mechanical knowledge of things like gear-ratios etc… Why do I say this? Because that is what members of my family who are cyclists belonging to cycling clubs tell me. Number-plates could be a problem fitting and size-wise when you consider that a motorcycle is only required to have a rear plate for those very real and practical reasons.

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Hi Chris yes 2 guesses who had to pay for that one !

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I can see many problems with a mandatory introduction of those requirements. Would they just be for new bike riders from a certain date? All bike riders from a certain date? Who would introduce and monitor the training and set the standards for the test? Who would be responsible for checking if a bike is registered? The list goes on. The amount of bureaucracy would be horrendous. The cost of implementation and maintaining the system enormous. And unless you had special “police” to check all those requirements the added workload would overwhelm the existing police forces, let’s face it they can’t cope with current crime levels and motoring offences. I genuinely think it’s a non-starter within the foreseeable future.

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What a load of nonsense.

Cars are insured as you are driving a machine that can kill someone and training and licenses are needed for a machine that can travel at serious speeds and you need to understand the rules of the road.

I’m pretty sure most cyclists also have cars and as such have passed the same tests as you.

Jumping on a bandwagon and generalising simply is wrong. I have as many bikes as cars and can honestly say that poor drivers are more a risk than bad cyclists.

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Couldn’t agree more. And it’s very easy to compartmentalise people in general - ‘those damned cyclists, motorcyclists, car drivers, etc.’ Being a keen motorist, cyclist (5,000 miles + per year), previous motorcyclist, oh, and a pedestrian of course, I’m not sure which compartment I would fall into - none hopefully - perhaps just a road user. As with everyone, I see more than my fair share of bad road use, mostly through disrespect of other road users of all types. Road users that have experience of a variety of transport methods are always much more appreciative of the problems that each one has to face - like how road conditions, weather, visibility and so on affect each one. When in the car, I give plenty of space to cycles and don’t creep up or pull in on them. When on the bike, I give signals where it will help a vehicle’s progress and I always wave thanks when a vehicle has patiently had to slow behind me on a sharp hill, bend, etc. Not all people riding bikes, driving cars/trucks, etc. are bad road users but I certainly see more issues (and potential consequences) caused by bad driving than by bad cycling. Oh, and on the cycling front (just to show that I’m not biased), when I was on the bike yesterday, coming towards me on a tiny lane in the middle of nowhere was a cyclist veering towards me - eyes on his phone AND wearing a mask! Are we all going completely mad?

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Unbelievable!