Rust in MX-5s

Buying a ‘5 and Insurance advice Buying Advice
21

This underbody rust proofing thread is, strangely, throwing up some differing opinions on what Mazda does in this respect at the factory.

Some posters say that large areas of the average MX-5 underbody is likely to be unprotected, whereas others write to contradict this, and state that Mazda do indeed underseal their cars.

I unearthed some old posts the other day, from years back (and since lost again !), which stated that Mazda protect wheel arches, and other areas that might suffer stone chip damage, but leave other sections unprotected.  The post also stated that ‘In their defence, Mazda do seem to be up-front about this though’ (wish I could find that post again !).

Obviously I’m going to have to get underneath my ‘new’ acquisition and find out for myself what has actually been done to it.  After all, for all I know, one of the previous owners may very well have given this little beauty the ‘full monty’ in the past.  Perhaps I should have asked the Mazda main dealer where we bought the car, to let us have a look at it underneath before we bought it !  Good advice to other prospective purchasers I think ! 

Thanks once again for all your help.

Chris Phillips.

 

 

22

Interesting subject this one of rust…alarming one as well! So to cut to the chase, let’s say for instance that one has a 4-5 year old model with no supplementary rust proof having been previously applied, how much and how long for a Rolls Royce job at a specialist outfit? I am not a 5 owner yet but intend to be in the market for one soon. If so then I will probably be looking at a 5 year ownership period. But should I consider a less than 3 year old model and still give it the RR treatment? Opinions please. Thanks, Len (N.E England, currently expat but not for much longer).     

23

I bought my 2006 Mk3 in April 2016. While in the process of fitting new brake discs it came as a shock to see how much rust there was on the suspension components, brake calipers & backing plates. The underbody itself has a thin black rubberised coating which seems to have done its job apart from a few small areas along the inner sills and around cross member drain holes. I checked the digital service history (the latest being in late 2015) which stated all the underbody inspections had been done and passed. All I can say is they didn’t inspect it very well and turned a blind eye to the rusty suspension parts which, apart from a VERY thin coat of paint didn’t have any protection whatsoever.  

The car spent the first few years of its life in the Scottish Highlands which won’t have done the underneath much good. Southern cars, and those not used on salty roads should fair better. 

So, what should have been a simple brake disc change turned into a 7 day job scrubbing, scraping and treating every bit of rust in sight, followed by 2 coats of black anti stone chip compound. The inner wings & arches are rust free, surprising considering the very thin coat of clear factory wax. They received 2 coats of Waxoyl underseal which is thicker than the normal stuff. Unfortunately the weather turned cold and wet before I could Waxoyl the inside of the sills, door bottoms and cavities…these are on the list to do this year. 

To sum up - Mazda apply an absolute minimum of sealant to the body. The inner wings and MAYBE the suspension parts receive a waft of clear wax…that’s it !!! 

24

I know I won’t be popular for saying this but Mazdas are not the most robust car.I keep mine in the garage and it has never been driven in the winter.I had a a cx5 for a while and it was junk.

25

 

 

I have to agree and it shouldn’t be so these days. Mazda spoil the ship for a ha’porth of tar !! 

Would I buy a new MX5 ? YES but I wouldn’t be happy unless it received a decent amount of underbody and cavity protection.  

My old 2002 Volvo S60 always slept out, used throughout winter and there wasn’t a speck of rust anywhere. Even the exhaust back box lasted 13 years before needing renewal, only then because the welded joints were crusty and might not have lasted much longer.  

   

26

Saz9961

You post some very good stuff but in this post you have not thought properly and just posted nonsence in all your posts.

MX5’s do rust from the outside and Mazda do not rust proof their cars properly.

You seem to be the only person here that does not agree with that in the recent past

Stop digging holes and making more of a fool of yourself on this matter.

Just admit on this occasion you got it wrong and keep on posting the good stuff when you have reasearched the subject and where your knowledge makes your posts a must read.

27

These last three or four posts really go back to my comments about four weeks ago, when I started this thread.

I was a motor mechanic in the 1970s, in a Vauxhall main dealers.  As this manufacturer had an appalling record for underbody protection a decade earlier, in the 70s all new Vauxhalls came with full undersealing.  I also worked for other main dealerships during the 70s too, and apart from a few exceptions, Alfa Romeo and British Leyland immediately spring to mind, this is how I remember new cars being delivered from the factory - with full undersealing.

This is not of course, to say that cars those days didn’t rust, just that the chassis were normally well protected in my experience.

With this memory firmly in my mind, I was astounded when I joined this club, and read some of the reports therein, concerning how Mazda do not properly protect their vehicles all these decades later.  I was soon put straight by more-informed members however, and when the better weather arrives, my newly-acquired 2008 MX-5 will be in for a full underbody check and probably Waxoyling.

On the whole though Lumply, if you buy a five-year-old MX-5, that has been reasonably well looked after, rust shouldn’t be an issue.  But if you intend to keep it for any length of time, it would be wise to have it checked out underneath, to see if any previous owner has done anything to it in this area, and if not, budget for ‘The Full Monty’ as soon as you can (probably around £350.00 or thereabouts).

For many MX-5 owners, these  are second cars, reserved for summer fun only, and cosseted to boot.  So consequently there are lots of beautiful used models on the market, with low mileages and simply spotless bodywork - all you have to do is find one ! 

Good luck in your quest.

Chris Phillips.

 

28

 

I think you could be referring to me Saz.  Just after I bought my ND I became aware of posts on the forum regarding rust/undersealing so I contacted Mazda UK about underbody protection and posted their reply, which I have repeated several times when the subject is raised.  So let me repeat AGAIN what they told me:-

  1. Their cars are NOT given underbody treatment, and the metal is not galvanised.  (I think Eddie /Drumtochty verified this when he did an on-ramp full underbody inspection on an ND).

  2. A few vulnerable areas are given stone-chip protection.

  3. There is no underbody protection given at any point post-production from factory to retail buyer.

So if they did underseal them in the past, which is very doubtful, they certainly don’t now!  So not “alarmist fibs” but facts from the Manufacturer’s mouth!!

 

29

I too am concerned about the rust issue in the 5 especially as I’ve just started searching for the first one. The mk 2.5 is apparently a model to be highly suspicious about (no offence meant to all the good folk who have one), but as a “MX5 Dummy” I am confused about applying the mk number to a specific year (which normally appears in adverts). Can somebody out there come up with an idiot proof list? Also, as my budget runs to 8-10kk my limited knowledge puts this price range in the 2009 onwards category. Am I correct in my assumptions, and would there be anything to worry about with the rust issue? Or am I worrying unnecessarily? Thanks, Len

30

Sorry about any repetition and the excellent earlier response received from Chris Phillips but the penny is still in the process of dropping! 

 

31

 

 

Hi Len,

Perhaps I should expand on my reference to ‘The Full Monty’ in underbody sealing.

There are firms around, who take off the wheels and wheel-arch under-covers, and steam clean everything underneath.  Then, after leaving it to dry overnight, often over heat, they then Waxoyl all the cavities (chassis members, sills, doors etc), then treat all exposed areas, before refitting all wheel-arch under-covers and wheels.  As I said, this treatment often costs £350.00 or thereabouts.

I have noticed that there are some companies who offer a cut-price service in this respect, but you know the old saying - ‘you only get what you pay for’.

Chris.

 

32

Whilst I agree 99% with what many (notably Chris Phillips above) says…there are many factors that influence the rate of tinworm accretion (aka rot…).
During my search over several months for a mint late NB or early NC, I probably saw about 12 cars, of which most if not all were exhibiting the symptoms, usually from the inside out.
Common causes were blocked drains, leaking scuttle sticky pads and …
PUTTING A COLD WET CAR INTO A HEATED GARAGE.
Think about what it’s doing, and it’s fairly obvious.
The warm and probably moist, (from tumble dryers,etc) air in the carefully-draught-proofed garage condenses not only on the outside, but in the internal cavities of the bodywork. Guess what that does…!
Any salty mud on the sills, wheel arch return flanges, etc also gets re-wetted and re-activated.

I lost count of the number of NB’s in particular that looked immaculate topsides, but were complete rust buckets internally. Not being sexist in any way, but almost all their owners were female, who cossetted their beloved cars, or so they thought.
I keep mine in a garage usually, but it’s unheated and well ventilated most of the time.
(Must get that garage door fixed…! ;-)))

Just my 5-penn’orth.

Aldi

33

 

That’s an interesting observation Aldi.

I’ve seen the mark 2 (NB) described in magazines as perhaps the ‘prettiest’ of the MX-5 versions, and I often hear the phrase “hairdresser’s car” bandied about by non-enthusiasts - is there some link here do you suppose ?

There are plenty of male OC members (non-hairdressers !) with NBs, but I just wondered how this put-down of MX-5s and their owners originally came about.

Chris Phillips.

 

34

Mx5’s are not alone in rot issues by a long chalk.

Mercedes had to replace coupe tailgates & sunroof panels ( made in Valencia) under warranty due to premature rot as did Honda with the Civic range whose tailgates and roof panels at the screen rail rusted out like blazes. I see BMW E30s with rotten wings and sills, and again a few Mercs with rotted wings. I also see plenty older Mercs with no rot issues.

Right through the Mazda range it’s not great.

If you nip into any dealer and look at showroom cars, it’s Orange peel City, and a quick look underneath…same as Mx5s.

Way back, Mazda even lied about rot proofing, (I possess an example of the showroom advert chart to prove it)…showing the “galvanised” areas of a Mk2. They were rapidly withdrawn from circulation.

Compare the build & finish quality between a Ford Fiesta and it’s Mazda sibling, you will see a marked difference in chassis finish and paint quality. I’ve just finished such an A/B comparison for my son, and plumped for a factory fresh ( 2 years old with 7k on) Fiesta Zetec. Comparable Mazdas were binned due to invariably having too much chassis ( surface) crumble bum.

Most here know I’ve been through the Mk2.5 rot repair saga to the extent that apart from the bonnet, boot, and doors…our 2002 Sport is metal wise Trigger’s Broom. I’m making a start on  my Mk1 this year for sills & rear arches…bu the SINGLE SKIN chassis rails, still with their evident with factory anti chip, are 100% solid.

That Mk1’s interior quality of plastics is right up there with Airfix. Apart from the excellent leather seats, it’s pretty bad. But, I don’t care. 

You could say I know a bit about Mx5 rot…to the tune so far of around 4k in re-metalling & paint bills.

As I have pointed out before, back in the day a top of range blinged up Jasper Conran Mk2 Platinum was the same price as a new Sat Nav ND today.

They have to be built to a corner cutting price and merely get through the first warranty obligations. After that, it’s rot and be damned unless you bite the bullet and submit the vehicle to a thorough anti rot eradication program.

They are what they are and always have been simply cheap and cheerful sports cars the masses could afford with the emphasis on engineering.

Ask any older TVR or Lotus owner, and they will say it’s about the engineering and what the car delivers rather than robustness. Even Loti chassis rotted…but it was easy enough to body off and pop the shell on a new one…if you had the dosh.

Look upon them as the Sports Car “Beetle for the masses”…then just shrug and accept them for what they are. Cheap as chips fun…even new never mind knocking on 3 decades.

What do we want? An ND at 28/30k fully galvanised with Bentley quality paint? Or do we want a mild steel one built to affordable bean-counted prices that can be rot proofed with a bit of determination & pragmatism? Of course. Mx5’s are like a bank account…you only get rewards out of them when you invest into them. Bit like people and life in general?

So saying, after 10 years of only owning a Mk1 & Mk2.5 side by side, I still don’t want anything else in my lock up.

Like a naughty child, I can forgive them anything! 

 

35

 

 

Hairdresser’s car ? Read this. 

 

1 Like
36

[quote=Scottishfiver]

Mx5’s are not alone in rot issues by a long chalk.

Mercedes had to replace coupe tailgates & sunroof panels ( made in Valencia) under warranty due to premature rot as did Honda with the Civic range whose tailgates and roof panels at the screen rail rusted out like blazes. I see BMW E30s with rotten wings and sills, and again a few Mercs with rotted wings. I also see plenty older Mercs with no rot issues.

Right through the Mazda range it’s not great.

If you nip into any dealer and look at showroom cars, it’s Orange peel City, and a quick look underneath…same as Mx5s.

Way back, Mazda even lied about rot proofing, (I possess an example of the showroom advert chart to prove it)…showing the “galvanised” areas of a Mk2. They were rapidly withdrawn from circulation.

Compare the build & finish quality between a Ford Fiesta and it’s Mazda sibling, you will see a marked difference in chassis finish and paint quality. I’ve just finished such an A/B comparison for my son, and plumped for a factory fresh ( 2 years old with 7k on) Fiesta Zetec. Comparable Mazdas were binned due to invariably having too much chassis ( surface) crumble bum.

Most here know I’ve been through the Mk2.5 rot repair saga to the extent that apart from the bonnet, boot, and doors…our 2002 Sport is metal wise Trigger’s Broom. I’m making a start on  my Mk1 this year for sills & rear arches…bu the SINGLE SKIN chassis rails, still with their evident with factory anti chip, are 100% solid.

That Mk1’s interior quality of plastics is right up there with Airfix. Apart from the excellent leather seats, it’s pretty bad. But, I don’t care. 

You could say I know a bit about Mx5 rot…to the tune so far of around 4k in re-metalling & paint bills.

As I have pointed out before, back in the day a top of range blinged up Jasper Conran Mk2 Platinum was the same price as a new Sat Nav ND today.

They have to be built to a corner cutting price and merely get through the first warranty obligations. After that, it’s rot and be damned unless you bite the bullet and submit the vehicle to a thorough anti rot eradication program.

They are what they are and always have been simply cheap and cheerful sports cars the masses could afford with the emphasis on engineering.

Ask any older TVR or Lotus owner, and they will say it’s about the engineering and what the car delivers rather than robustness. Even Loti chassis rotted…but it was easy enough to body off and pop the shell on a new one…if you had the dosh.

Look upon them as the Sports Car “Beetle for the masses”…then just shrug and accept them for what they are. Cheap as chips fun…even new never mind knocking on 3 decades.

What do we want? An ND at 28/30k fully galvanised with Bentley quality paint? Or do we want a mild steel one built to affordable bean-counted prices that can be rot proofed with a bit of determination & pragmatism? Of course. Mx5’s are like a bank account…you only get rewards out of them when you invest into them. Bit like people and life in general?

So saying, after 10 years of only owning a Mk1 & Mk2.5 side by side, I still don’t want anything else in my lock up.

Like a naughty child, I can forgive them anything! 

 

Wow thanks for being so frank but you are focussing on the earlier models, right? A 3-5 year old would probably benefit from a thorough sealing job that will protect for say 8 years Minimum. Am I right in saying that? Have to be honest that I’ve got the Audi TT on my list also but more expensive to acquire, I can handle that but maybe not feel too chirpy about the servicing and any repair costs. I could stretch to a the new RF 5 when used ones start filtering onto the market maybe towards the end of 2017 but as a retiree from Feb 18 I need to be careful about my choice, like most people of course. I’ll let you knock w how I get on!

37

My dad bought a used Mazda 323 back in the 70’s, Mazda advertised that you could drive a 323 in a salt mine and it wouldn’t rust, a good buy I thought, guess what?

I also owned a couple of mid 70’s Mazda RX3s, they were about 2/3 years old but had rust underneath the painted panels and a later Honda Accord was no better. An early Toyota Celica was sound, I even had a late 80’s Lancia Prisma that was solid and a good car.

38

[quote=Lumply]

 

Agreed. Bang on in fact.

Yes, I focused on my own back yard, but I think we both know Mk3’s have rot issues, and there is no reason to suppose Mk3.5’s are going to be radically different.

I’ve seen a few young’uns where surface crud already taking their toll. Basically, it is my unfortunate experience driven view…that every 5 worth saving needs all the help it can get…including new ND’s.

There is a very useful thread supplied by the famous/infamous (!)  & candid “Drumtochty” who pretty much stripped a new ND and proofed it. Once he had peeled off bits of…masking tape. Very enlightening that was. No debatable opinions…just photographic evidence & fact.

It was not pretty viewing.

But, being pragmatic again, if the car is not a keeper and just a one/two year itch-scratch why bother?

If it is an enthusiast’s baby there is every reason to get stuck in. 

 

39

I can’t disagree with the assertion that Mazdas in general are not the most rotproof of vehicles, and MX5s are among the worst, but I still love mine, which I have preserved to the best of my ability.
It seems to me that the industry moved on in the 90s and noughties to apply serious rustproofing (notably e-coat) as standard. I worked for a major US-based motor manufacturer in the 80s and they were desperately playing catch-up with their continental rivals who had introduced some very good paint processes and their corrosion results deservedly earned them more sales. There have been numerous imporovements since then, but Mazda perhaps reason that they don’t need to, since their domestic market uses no road salt. It’s only UK and North America who use it to any great extent these days. A new true electro-phoretic (e-coat) paint plant for car bodies costs a LOT of money, so maybe Uncle Henry in Dearborn won’t sanction it in Japan as well as US and EU.

Among the worst for rot were the Italians - early Lancias in the UK lasted months!
I had an Alfa 1750 GTV LHD back in the 70’s, which I brought back with me from Germany secondhand. Went like a scalded cat and handled beautifully, but rot…!
I took it to an Italian dealership in Birmingham -where I was based at the time - and asked for their opinion on worth repairing or not…
I’ll never forget the comment of their chief mechanic Mario…

“When you buya de Alfa, you buya de motor and gerabox…de body he comea for free…!”
Maybe Mazda sometimes take a leaf out their book.

It wasn’t just the Italians, either…I’ve recounted elsewhere my story of the rotten early E-type that nearly decapitated me, and they still sold like hot cakes based on an epic engine and suspension and gorgeous body lines.

Phrases re tar, ships, spoils, etc come to mind. Shame, really, since the powertrain (again Ford derived) is very durable, as we all know.

Cheers,

Aldi (and No, Chris, I’m deffo NOT a hairdresser!)

40

 

I can’t see anything saz9661 has posted here which is untrue.