Ok, after some advice. It’s not MX related at all.
My other car is a run of the mill 2016 Ford Focus ecoboost.
It’s in the Ford garage having a (very expensive) wet cam belt change. Yesterday afternoon, I had a call with bad news. While removing the exhaust manifold and cat they(the garage) have sheared 3 of the 4 bolts attaching the cat. They informed me that I need a new cat at an astronomical cost of £980 on top of the cost of the wet belt change. I went ballistic, stating that they have broken it, not me, and my initial thought was that the garage should bear the cost. After much discussion, the service manager has said he will reduce the part to £800 with no labour, that’s part of the wet belt change cost
I have woken up to a thought that wherever I took it, the bolts would have sheared, so I should bear the full cost. However, I would appreciate any thoughts on this proposal. Not thoughts on the Focus or the Ecoboost engine, but on whether I am being ripped off by the Ford garage. Should I be asking for more off?
I don’t know if that’s true or not - I’m not a mechanic and I don’t know why those bolts sheared (age vs. poor technique on the part of the technicians at Ford). However, if it is the case that a vehicle of that age having that job carried out carries that risk then my opinion is that the garage should have warned you ahead of time it might happen and what the additional cost could be. The logic I’m applying here is that this is a Ford garage and I assume they have done this job on similar vehicles plenty of times in the past.
Did they mention the possibility of this happening beforehand?
Further more ….. once the first one snapped a phone call to yourself regarding the matter…next steps ?
I wouldn’t be paying for their errors Could have soaked with penetrant for a day or so before they had a pop at it…..or an apprentice ragging away at it
It is a Ford garage and before I handed the keys over,I asked if it had been done by them before. The response was “we do 6-7 a week”
So I thought I was leaving it in good hands with guys who know how to handle a 10 year old car( that’s the timing for these belts )
I did ask the service manager yesterday why wasn’t I warned before hand,his response was that this could happen or it may not and to warn everyone of the possibility would be a non sales service.
I’d have thought the usual proceedure, after shearing old bolts, would be to drill out the sheared bolts, tap new threads in and fit with new bolts. Could save the price of a new cat, or is that too old school mechaniking these days
Look at it a different way. Regardless of who said what at what time and which garage it would be, on a 10 year old car, on exhaust parts, the bolts are highly susceptible and they are going to break regardless. In the overall scale of things there was going to be a new CAT required regardless. If they had said, they the choice you would have had would be;
Hope they didn’t snap, but they did and the cost would still be there (and no reduction)
Take it somewhere else and the bolt still snap and you still have the cost anyway.
Not have the belt done, bolts don’t snap but at some point the belt does and the car is crap our you pay for the far more expensive repair.
Their response to that was by heating the flange with the bolts, if it warped, then it would no longer be a flush fit and would then need a new one regardless
That’s what I have come round to thinking, I wanted the belt changed as I didn’t want the engine to self detonate.
It’s all about a garage that does this job once a day, have they really tried their very best NOT to shear any bolts, or has an apprentice been allowed to have a go. Was penetrating fluid applied?
Were the nuts pre heated before having a go?
Questions that I will get answers to, but wanted to know the opinion of fellow car enthusiasts if I should start kicking and screaming. I am starting to think that it’s a lost cause. Stump up
Not sure sufficient heat would be generated to warp the flange by drilling out the old bolts or tapping a new thread, or are they saying the bolts sheard after applying heat Either way I’d take the discount as a win if the can’t couldn’t save the cat
So, car picked up, questions asked and I have seen my old cat assembly.
One of their master technicians did the job, not an apprentice.
Yes, penetrating fluid and heat were applied to the bolts attaching the assemble to the undercar exhaust piping but they both sheared. I could see and smell the penetrating oil.
When asked why they did not call after the first bolt shear, there was no meaningful explanation.
Their shear bolt rate is about 2-3 vehicles/month.
When asked why they do not advise of possible further cost if bolts shear to customers at key hand over, the same response of that would frighten too many people away was the explanation. I still don’t accept that but it’s their service business, not mine.
Hard to believe but the cost of a new cat is subject to return of the old one. I know it’s full of precious metals but unbelievably a new cat without an exchange would be nearer £1500….
So the service Manager has tried his best and I’ve ended up paying £327 less than the combined quoted new wet belt and new cat.
Still a huge amount of money but I believe in getting the cam belt done when mandated by the manufacturer. Interestingly, newer Fords are recommended to change the belt at 60000 miles/5 years, not the 125k/10 years of mine.
Again , thank you guys for your thoughts and opinions.
I’ve read of the problems some people have on their MX5s of removing/shearing rusted bolts so it’s not unknown to me. Just thought a dealer garage would have the same ingenuity that the MX-5 owners do.
Some bolts especially on a 10 year old cat are almost impossible to move even with heat, penetrating fluid would be useless. They probably don`t want the hassle of re drilling and using bolts etc.
Was unaware a wet belt change required exhaust removal.
I would be a bit miffed though if they knew it was a possibility, surely they should notify the customer and get them to sign some sort of disclaimer?
Given you have taken it to them to do the job and it was them who sheared the bolts it should be down to them to put it right at no cost to you… id be telling them im not paying for a new cat since it was their mess up so you shouldn’t bear the cost of rectifying their cock up.
The Ecoboost engines exhaust manifold is at the front of the engine(nearest the bumper) with the cat literally just downwind of the manifold(stops the thieves sawing them off as it’s not underneath the car)
The sump of the engine requires removal so that’s why the exhaust has to come off….
I did raise my humble opinion that it should be a requirement to be aware of the risk of increased costs but they have decided otherwise
I would get them to check the rod bearings are in good condition first. Before potentially wasting money on a new cat. These engines with wet belts are prone to oil starvation (especially when ford’s service interval of 100000 miles is followed!) many mechanics recommend changing at 60000 or 6 years to combat this issue. As the belt wears, it sheds pieces of rubber that block the oil pickup mesh and cause excess bearing wear.
