TCS - Cannot drive up slopes

Technical Area Wheels, Tyres & Brakes
1
  1. My model of MX-5 is: 2016 soft-top__
  2. I’m based near: In Germany now_
  3. I’m looking for technical help or recommendations on: TCS problems.

Hello Everybody,

I am now on my second MX-5. I bought a new one towards the end of 2016 and am about to trade it n and never drive anything from Mazda again. I loved my 1998 MX5 but the new one has had many problems.

Before I give up, I would like to know if anyone else has had problems with the Traction Control System preventing the car from driving up slopes such as the ramps in underground or multi-storey car parks or even uphill roads if it’s a little icy?

The effect is similar to de-clutching; the engine revs go up and the car slides backwards slowly. If I try to regain control I just end up with a burning clutch. The only solution is to slide back to the bottom of the slope (dangerous sometimes); turn off the TCS and take a run-up.

I have hardly driven the car over the years that I have had it as I am terrified of losing control (I live in a hilly area). There have been many (many!) other problems but this one is the “killer”.

Has anyone heard of anything like this?

Any suggestions welcome.

Regards,

Paul.

2

Sounds a bit like a problem some Bimmers (used to ?) have. A colleague got stuck on slush on a hardly steep hill in the new forest in his then new bmw with several otherBMs. Eventually some some slightly scary bloke in a hilux turned up, tapped on each window, reached in and turned off the traction control and all went on their way!

3

I was going to suggest this…??

4

Yep! Turn the TCS off but Icy is a bummer whatever car you’re driving! If it’s ice rather than snow what grip do you expect? Only ice tyres with studs will penetrate to give you grip. If you’re driving on snow then winter tyres will help, and if you’re in Germany I believe that winter tyres are obligatory(?) at this time of year. If you’re used to driving front wheel drive cars then the whole scenario is different for rear wheel drive cars in winter conditions, I learned that the hard way!

1 Like
5

I’ve had this happen in a few cars over the years, not just MX5s.

And with that, turning off the traction control resolves the ‘issue’… I wouldn’t even refer to it as ‘an issue’, it’s just a quirk of modern cars :man_shrugging:

6

the TCS dips the power and can apply brakes. If the revs are climbing and sliding back you have lost traction and it is nothing to do with the TCS.

Just drive with it off, at least the switch actually turns it off. I have a Ford as a daily and when you turn the TCS off it just reduces to another level and a second TCS warning light comes on as it activates (impossible to turn off!)

1 Like
7

The main issue is with a rear wheel drive car, there is no weight over the driven wheels - same as BMW’s. Although with the car being very light anyway, the MX5 will be potentially worse. Some BMW drivers used to put bricks in their boots during winter to aid traction.

I once had an MG Metro and I could not afford new tyres and the ones on the car were effectively bald. When it rained there were a couple of hills in Northwich that I could not get up when it rained. However this was fixed when I got paid and got new tyres. Which goes to show that new decent tyres will make a difference. However definitely switch traction control off - this was why it was switchable. When ABS first came out I remember ford gave you a switch, so that if you were driving in snow you could switch it off as it made an improvement as ABS and snow do not mix well.

1 Like
8

Are you confusing ABS and TCS here…?

ABS and snow absolutely do mix, and I challenge you to try and complete an effective emergency stop in snow without ABS!

1 Like
9

No, I definitely mean ABS.

Apparently in snow you can brake a lot quicker if the wheels lock, as snow builds up in front of the tyres and helps you to brake. That was the theory anyway, I seem to remember the advertising for the Ford Granada which was one of the first cars with ABS (after the Merc S Class I think). The first cars had a switch where you could turn off the ABS/…

However I am not convinced that in reality it would help. If there is a fresh fall of powder with no ice underneath, then ok, but otherwise I would go with ABS…

I have just looked on the interweb for the advert, but I cannot see it, so I accept I may be wrong, it was a long time ago!!!

10

Driving With ABS in Snow and Ice | YourMechanic Advice

Try this link…

11

I think in snow losing steering control would be a bigger issue than the actual stopping distance itself…

I’m not sure then really, but I wouldn’t fancy my chances without it

1 Like
13

I found out that my NA did not have ABS when I first got it (I presume that it did not rather than it was faulty?) and relearned how to cadence brake, but it certainly makes you more careful in slippery conditions when you cannot rely on ABS. I would definitely prefer it, even in snow, no matter what the link says…

14

It certainly used to be a thing to turn off ABS in snow, it was even in the handbook, and the first few cars I had with ABS had a switch to do it with. One was an Audi 100. I think there was even a big Rover (800 series?) that turned off its own ABS if all four wheels locked at low pressure, and it had to be restarted to reset it.

This has clearly gone away as there is now usually no means of turning it off. Also ABS is now more advanced and I assume operates on all four wheels by default. The early versions just pulsed the brake pressure all round.

I did once turn off the ABS on the Audi on a steep hill covered in ice (I was going downhill). It was so slippy that the ABS just stopped the brakes working at all, without it I had just enough retardation with very gentle pressure to avoid actually picking up speed. Fortunately I was only doing maybe 4-5 mph at the time.

15

I’ve deleted my post as we don’t want to go off topic and confuse anyone. :slightly_smiling_face:

16

How has the lack of traction driving UP SLOPES (see OP) got anything to do with brakes and ABS???

17

It hasn’t got anything to do with it… We’ve gone off topic from Traction Control!

18

Totally agree with the point made by “Snelly” about weight distribution/grip. I always found that I had more grip/traction in winter conditions my front wheel drive cars. IF, big IF, I have to go out in my “5” in dubious conditions I will probably put a couple of 25kg sacks of seed in the boot. As for stopping in snow, surely the first thing to reduce drive - foot off accelerator, then GENTLY on the brakes, rather than just jumping on the brakes.

19

Hello All,

Thanks for all the replies.

There is overlap between the various systems. As I understand it, TCS does apply the brakes. I don’t think that ABS operation has much to do with this particular traction problem. I am not aware of ABS ever having operated on this car. I drive very carefully nowadays.

I am slightly relieved to find out that a typical TCS can be caught out by the uphill slope situation. I hadn’t known thhat.

To reply to one of the many comments, I am not 100% sure that I really have lost traction when this problem kicks in. On a slightly slippery road - maybe a little. In an underground car pack with on a good surface, I’m not so sure.

To reply to another comment - I always use winter tyres in winter.

I am of the view that the algorithm that decides that traction is lost and that action needs to be taken is over-enthusiatic. I think I know how it got fooled on one or possibly two occassions but otherwise not.

On the first time, I was driving up a long slope from an underground car park and a pedestrian decided to walk down the ramp. I de-clutched and applied left and then right lock to roll backwards and tuck the car into the side of the ramp to allow the pedestrian to pass. I could not hill start from this position.

The other time, I was driving up a very steep and very tight spiral ramp from another underground car-park, I had to apply a lot of steering input to avoid the walls. This was particulalry scary owing to lack of space and that other cars had followed me up the spiral and the drivers were getting very impatient (indeed) as I got slower, slower and slower. I was on the point of rolling back into the car behind when the slope levelled out and things seemed to return to normal.

On all the other occassions, I have no idea why things went wrong. Maybe a very slight loss of traction that would otherwise not have been an issue or perhaps even noticeable.

The car is going in to have the door locking and engine start electronics and sensors changed again (second or third time) next week, I just wondered if there was anything I could tell the dealer to look out for with this TCS problem.

I am going to put a label on the dashboard to remind me to turn TCS off everytime I get into the car. That is probably going to be the best solution.

Thanks for all the useful and informative replies.

Regards,

Paul.

1 Like
20

As a now retired former professional driver I used to look forward to a heavy snowfall and the absolute mess some drivers of more powerful rear wheel drive (Mercedes/BMW) car drivers got into on hills and roundabouts etc. Whereas the little old lady in her small front wheel drive vehicle soldiered on with little problem, probably with little knowledge of ABS or TCS. It is a fact that rear wheel drive cars are more problematic in snow or ice compared to front wheel drive. I live in a cul-de-sac on a slight incline my Merc and mx-5 can barely make it up the hill if the road conditions are very slippery whereas my 4 wheel drive Audi S3 has no problem at all, one of the reasons I bought it.

1 Like
21

I have a 3 series touring and my wife has a Panda.
The Panda is fantastic in snow and the BeeEmm appalling, so if there’s snow about it’s the Panda every time.
Haven’t tried the 5 in snow yet but I suspect it will be more like the BeeEmm than the Fiat.

2 Likes