What I can’t understand about how this club works is how there seems to be a “them and us” mentality. The “hierarchy” seem to talk down to “ordinary” club members who seem to be criticised for asking genuine questions.
If the club hierarchy need help, why isn’t a formal club request declared?
This club is possibly the largest car club in UK and the forum is the best way of communicating there is. Unfortunately, in our case, it’s not too good - it ought to be among the best. Club members expect it to work well because it’s part of our modern world and the club members pay for it.
Karl, you quote at the bottom of every post you make… “The past is a terrible place to live.” -Steve Hogarth.
The club’s website belongs to the past.
Before I come in for personal criticism, I run a website for another car club and I’m involved in it almost every day. I was asked to take it on because I was one of the more active club members (and probably because no-one else was prepared to do it). I’m not in any way an IT expert, just someone who wanted the club to work as well as it could and in truth without ready communication there is no club!
Within a short time I’d found a professional provider who could sort it for us at very low cost. The software we use possibly wouldn’t be suitable for a club as large as ours (7,000 plus members?) but these professional people are out there, and so is the software.
In the interests of time [and sanity], I don’t particularly want to get drawn into this thread; my thoughts have been expressed on other similar ones lately, but happy to repeat those thoughts and add the little bit that has changed in the interim weeks.
Over the past couple of years, the club has made a big investment in its web presence – this is largely down to the work of Karl, Gary and several others, as well as the vast majority of ACs who have put in a lot of effort to produce quality content and enter local events to a national calendar. We had tried this in the past but to little success, so it’s great that we have managed to take a step forwards this time. Our web front end is now completely different in both appearance and architecture to what it was this time last year, and whilst there are still things to improve, I think we are all in agreement that it is taking us in the right direction.
We work with a professional business to help us to continue to produce quality content, and promote that content and the wider club through social media and other platforms, and as a result of this we continue to see our membership numbers increase.
The forum is the last part of site that is due for a refresh, and as was explained in the other recent thread about this, there are people actively looking into what our options are with this, and will then work to see it through. Without knowing what the plan with that is, I wouldn’t want to allude to timescales, but I see no reason why it wouldn’t happen as quickly as we can make it happen.
In a separate work thread to the above, we will also be making an upgrade to the server which powers the forum and club backend which will probably serve to boost performance in the meantime. Since this is coupled directly to my availability it is a little tricky to say exactly when this will happen, but likely within the next couple of months.
Nobody is entirely satisfied with the performance of the forum over the past few months (in particular), and despite quite a lot of time spent looking into it, there isn’t an obvious cause besides sheer volume of traffic generally being too much for the forum software to handle. The bottleneck is in disk IO, and my speculation is that some sequence of events causes a deadlock-type situation in the database, but proving that or otherwise tracking it down is incredibly hard. But it would explain why the majority of the time it’s relatively quick (both anecdotally and from the data we have, we can see that most requests are in the order of a few hundred milliseconds) coupled with periods where requests take substantially longer, or even timeout.
Paul, I’m not one of “them” or “us” - I’ve been all sorts of things in this club but not a committee member. Genuine questions are not something I would ever complain about, but like many other places on the internet it’s seldom ever genuine questions. What we are getting is repeated slagging off of people trying to do stuff in their own time.
I’m not in any way suggesting that this forum doesn’t belong in the past. The reason the OC has the front page it has (on a very separate platform from the forum) is because I kept making this point directly to the Committee (rather than moaning on here all the time) and got the go ahead to set up a new front end - an element of the OC website which was particularly poor and dated. Now the front page is better (although Gerry thinks it’s bollocks but you can’t keep everyone happy) it’s the forum’s turn and it will happen. I can’t do that bit, and I continue to acknowledge that it’s not great, but it’s not going to help Ramsay, Gary etc. if I post the same repeated complaints every day.
As for help requests, there have been a large number of them published prominently in STHT over the past few years. All of these have also been signposted by the Chair in his reflections column. I may be wrong as I’ve not got all the inside information, but to my knowledge the number of people who have come forward after those requests is zero.
The OC is looking to move its online presence to being managed by a professional provider - Next Step Heritage. They already run the social media and front end under the guidance of Martin & Gary. Gary’s working on moving the forum. Ramsay (who I notice has posted much the same as what I’m saying as I’ve been typing this) is working on the server practicalities etc. None of this is news. None of this hasn’t been said time and time again. And yet still people post and post as if no one at the OC is aware of any problems or think that everything is fine.
It’s not great. People are working on it. No one has offered to help, they just repeat the same moans on an almost daily basis without reading the responses.
Questions as to progress etc. fine, “This forum is shit and the the OC IT people are shit too” on repeat…less fine.
I also quote this: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”-Thumper
Sometimes it’s difficult and I can’t always follow it but I do try.
Karl
Karl, thanks for taking the time to reply.
I certainly have no intent to “slag off” anyone, especially as I know what’s involved in running the other forum I mentioned - I get involved in all “forum issues” for that one. Any problems I can’t solve usually involve me driving over to consult in person with the chap who hosts the website for our club.
As many have stated, the forum here is at times almost unusable and there aren’t many occasions of late that I could truthfully say the forum works well. Without keeping the subject “up front”, human nature being what it is, it possibly won’t be given the priority it needs.
My presence on the forum has been quite recent, slightly before I joined the club about 18 months ago. I use it mainly as a source of technical information about the MX5 and where I can, offer advice based on almost fifty years of working on motor vehicles. I seem, for my sins responsible for a small fleet of family vehicles (actually about a dozen, including two MX5s, one of which has been turned into a fast track day car) and much of my spare time revolves around fixing/maintaining mechanical transport. I have built some of my own cars and motorcycles from the chassis up. My main project car (not an MX5) is fitted with a unique fuel injection system, supercharger setup and disc brake system all of my own design and build (yes, it’s MOT’d, btw - all fully legal and roadworthy!
I also use the forum to learn “bang up to date” info about what’s going on in the club, especially events etc.
I’ve said it before, I for one, would be quite happy for the club to produce/send out fewer paper copies of STHT (which is undoubtedly very expensive to produce and distribute, both in terms of time and money) to release funds to improve the performance of this forum. But the website I administrate costs our club peanuts.
Last post (around 1.30 am) took nearly two minutes, and another 404, before it registered. Bearing in mind Ramsay once stated the server (apparently there was one then) did back-ups starting at midnight, so a delay was half expected.
Oh, and Karl - I didn’t once wave the “Everywhere else if fine” banner. - it’s pointless and irrelevant. Everybody is aware of it, so what.
If I owned a garage, and some owner came in every other day repeating the same problem, then sooner or later I would be compelled to tell him to try a professional and authorised dealer, or a really good independent garage, it would be my only solution to preserve my reputation. - If I can’t fix it, “then I know a man that can” principle. The same applies to this Club. (and no way would I take on a garage myself - I’m not a mechanic)
As it appears to me, the Club has built a rod for it’s own back, with a forum so complex that populating it will take longer than fixing it. So it’s what members wanted, but some thought in advance would have helped reduce that problem IMHO. Of course, it follows that Mazda didn’t help, by varying the number of models, it also complicated the requirements. Miata.net is even more complicated, being forums within a forum. But while i don’t use it much these days, I’ve never had a problem using it when I need to - no delays in browsing, or posting either.
As the USA does not have a main club, then it’s unclear how their website is funded, though it does appear to observers that there is a degree of sponsorship behind it. So do we, so suggesting better or more isn’t really a good idea. By the same token, we need a good server and if there isn’t one available in the UK (why not?) then I’d suggest we ask Eunos communications, who power Miata.net. (Puzzling name for a country that bans JDM imports!)
Suggesting a UK software house that is capable is nigh impossible, as my son, who is now a head Consultant in the UK for a WW company, has worked at various houses before, and never found one that was technically proficient; having progressed from programmer to ‘cleaner up’ (technical) at most places. He was so disillusioned that at one point he was considering moving to Spain and working in a bar. Many programmers of similar ilk now operate as outside contractors for software houses. There are several ways to find one, ‘linked in’ seems a common source for most independents. None come ‘cheap’. His company charges £1500 per day for programming time. Independents will be less, but still not cheap. No one is going to volunteer, obviously. Most programmers of worth are tied to the company they work for, and outside work is verboten. Paul W (post above) seems to have found one, but whether he’s capable of doing this site is open to discussion, Paul says his other site is far less complicated. Judging by odd past comments, Ramsay has better fields to plow these days, as will anyone who works on this site.
While few members actually use this site, even on an area only basis, the membership number (openly published) becomes a target for hackers, scammers and phishers, so security has to be paramount and definitely bug free! (Back door secure and totally locked)
Post tine - another 404?- wait for it - - - - -
No - took less than three secs - wow. Where are you Karl?
Hi Karl et al,
First let me say a big ‘Thank You’ to you, Ramsay, Gary and Martin for all the time and effort you have all put into developing and maintaining the website and forum as volunteers.
The club has grown to what it is today based on the significant contributions of volunteers at both national and regional levels.
I hale from the North-West region and when I joined the MX5OC back in 2011 the North-West had its own regional website and a separate forum. The website was hard coded and maintained by one of the members who hosted it on a sub-domain attached to his business account at no cost to the club or members.
In common with many clubs, over time members come and go and people’s circumstances and priorities change.
By the end of 2013 the situation for our North-West area was that the member who had expended a lot of his personal time setting up and maintaining the website was no longer able to do so and as a result the website had become stale and dated in its content and appearance.
The reality was that most of our members totally ignored the website and spent all of their time on the forum. The point here is that there was total separation between the website and forum with separate logins for the two platforms.
Although I have no formal qualifications in setting up, designing or maintaining a website I have a lifelong interest in computers and technology and a thirst for knowledge and because of that I was nominated by a fellow member and former work colleague as someone ideally suited to take on the task of modernising our North-West area website and forum for free.
The first thing I did was to research what website platforms were out there. I soon identified WordPress as being one of, if not the most popular platforms being used by many of the world’s biggest companies for their websites, which is well supported and relatively easy to get up and running if you have little knowledge or experience in websites or programming.
WordPress was originally developed as a personal ‘blogging tool’ for people to post online their personal views about anything. It was a fore runner to ‘social media’ but a progression from traditional ‘bulletin boards’ and ‘forums’.
Today, WordPress has become much more than simply a ‘blogging tool’ and is used as a ‘content management system’ for many websites.
I subsequently acquainted myself with WordPress and designed and developed our current North-West area website which went live in January 2016. It took me the best part of a year to develop in my spare time. Since its launch there have been few issues to deal with and our local website membership has grown from 100 to 400 over the past 18 months.
There are ongoing costs associated with the website which include webhosting, domain name registration, SSL certificate, premium theme, backup and security measures. These costs have been met by myself personally or through voluntary contributions from our local membership.
We have transitioned from having a separate website and forum to now having a fully integrated website and blogging (forum) platform.
My biggest fear / concern when I embarked on the task was that our members would not accept my solution in place of their beloved ‘forum’.
In order to address those concerns I gave a presentation at our annual planning meeting in which I compared the existing website and forum to an early generation mobile phone which was only capable of making calls or sending text messages. You needed a separate camera to take photos or a computer to surf the internet, whereas with the current generation of smart phones you have built in cameras and internet access.
The difference in the two generations of mobile phones is the lack of integration. I asked our membership if they wanted an early generation non-integrated website and forum or a fully integrated smartphone website and forum. They voted unanimously for the smartphone version.
In order to achieve that outcome meant that we accepted that the ‘blogging’ capabilities of WordPress would need to replace the traditional forum. Forum ‘Topics’ were replaced by WordPress ‘Posts’ and Forum ‘Posts’ were replaced by WordPress ‘Comments’.
We then implemented a switch over date beyond which the old forum ceased to exist.
There will no doubt be people reading this post who ask ‘why haven’t I volunteered to help out with updating the national website?’.
Unfortunately, there has been a lot going on in my personal life which has prevented me from doing so. I lost my wife to cancer in February this year and my mother also passed away in October.
I am now willing to offer what help and advice I can from my own experience of updating the North-West area website with a WordPress solution if anyone wishes to speak with me. The best way of contacting me is via email in the first instance at webmaster@mx5northwest.co.uk
Interesting post, bit early - but no formal response yet. (Don’t hold your breath).
A volunteer is available it seems, but I would ask “Are you aware really of what you are volunteering yourself for?” This Forum is a can of worms and also carries with it a commitment for future responsibility, i.e. - a minimum of ten years I would say. It’s a known fact we have a Club full of critics, and almost no volunteers, typical of our destiny, we don’t really know what we want, or where we are going except nothing suits most.
That’s without going into politics (a verboten subject).
My own comment is that the NW Area is tainted somewhat, having never seen an outcome to a sore subject. I’m not suggesting the OP is associated with that, probably not, but I do recall various questions from new members asking where and how they could get information about activity in that Area, and a lack of response except from members in other areas.
My own view has changed, as a former participating member of the NEM, we also used to have our own separate website, also run by a volunteer, but eventually time and cost exceeded his capability and the Area decided to join the main forum. At that time, I and some local members were disappointed, but since then, time has healed that wound and now I prefer the ‘all in’ format. As a CLUB supporter (rather than an Area one) I’m now against local websites and forums - there’s an element of ‘us’ and ‘them’ about it and also a hark back to times when regions within the UK not only hated others, but had wars between them too.
However, enough of personal likes and dislikes, life goes on.
I criticized the front end, unkindly perhaps, considering the time spent by a volunteer, but nevertheless a valid point, again from my POV. When you view other websites, there is no comparison, Car Club sites perhaps but not professional ones. Check on the official Fiat site as just one example. Mazda has produced countless commercials for TV in the ,last few years, many now redundant, so they are sitting on a goldmine of used videos, any of which would have made a wonderful change to our website. The Zoom Zoom one always springs to mind! There is no sign of video or audio anywhere on the website either; not necessary for every comment or entry on the forum, but some choice owners comments would add to the welcome appeal IMHO.
So - the front end is our window to the world, and we don’t take advantage of the opportunity. Currently - something new? the menu available on the top of last weeks home page has gone, now you have to figure out how to get to the forum, only by clicking on the ‘settings’ sign can you find a menu round the site, and then you have to scroll down to find the Forum. - If you don’t know where or what a ‘settings’ sign is - good luck, searching (scroll down again) doesn’t seem to work. - Settings are three short horizontal bars on the top right of the home page - no guide to that as usual. (Site for nerd’s).
And - the front page wants altering, every quarter at least. We at one time did have a spring,summer, autumn and winter theme going, but that ended rather abruptly. We also need a ‘NEWS’ page, things happen monthly, weekly and almost daily in the car world, and not everyone subscribes to news media or car magazines.
Then there’s obviously ‘Club News’ - announcements, events, appointments and retirements- even a births, weddings and deaths column, though that’s obviously debatable. ( I doubt few will care when I drop dead)
We used to have (years ago) a page where individuals could post articles about car repairs, known faults etc, - long gone, It would be nice to see that restored. Then there’s Robbie’s Special Edition lists, always ongoing. Committee meetings and AGM’s - full reports. It would be good to see the Constitution on view too
- seeing as few new members are aware of it.
From this (and there’s more) The website IS NOT just about the forum, it’s a whole rewrite for the Club, so the lead question is “Can you handle this lot?” - and that’s without any Committee input, but just my thoughts as a caring CLUB supporter. You cannot count on numerous volunteers, regard any as a gift of gold, because they’ll be as rare as a pinhead on the beach, so you may have to DIY. I see the ability to code as much as just grab a base Forum format out of hyper space as a necessary evil.
You will need the patience of a saint, the ability to compromise, a great sense of humour and the ability to dedicate yourself to the Club and it’s media for a long time ahead - still want to volunteer?
I doubt very much you’re going to get any kind of formal response on the arse end of someone else’s thread. Glyn great to see your offer, I’d suggest it’s best made directly to whoever is responsible for the Club web presence, hopefully this will be made clear either on the forum or in STHT soon.
Head above parapet and ready to duck
This is intended as simple, hopefully unbiased feedback from a fairly regular poster who joined the club one year ago.
I work as a full time professional and have 3 children and a wife who is also a full time professional so our lives are busy.
I recognise that my experience may well not be representative given some of the comments above and in other threads.
Overall I have have generally been very happy with how the forum website works from a technical point of view ( although I admit to not having tried to post photos yet ). I use a pretty clunky old iPad mini which is dreadful for loading news pages for example and continually has to reload these. However the forum website has usually been quick to load and hasn’t ever crashed on me. It can be a bit slow sending replies but never to the point where I have felt particularly frustrated or wanted to give up.
From a non technical point of view I have found the forum welcoming and extremely helpful perhaps to the point of being invaluable. It is incredibly good value for money and I would happily pay a higher annual premium. I am always impressed by people’s willingness to give up their time to help, give advice and provide photographic evidence/info in support of their replies. There are some extremely knowledgable/experienced members who reply quickly and supportively as long as there has been some effort to try and find the relevant information independently first.
Ding dongs between a few of the regular advanced posters seem fairly regular and although entertaining does get personal at times - they seem thick skinned enough to take it but I am not sure what new or casual users of the site think.
My only criticism is when a first time user gets slapped down heavily for having done no research when posting a question. Fair comment perhaps but there are gentle ways to educate the potential new member - an approach adopted by the majority. I would have thought that if an advanced poster feels that the question doesn’t deserve a reply from them then don’t bother replying - other members do seem willing to help and in my view that is there prerogative.
cheers
Matt
Hello Glynn,
Thanks for your offer of help, much appreciated. The new front end of the website, set up by myself and recently passed on to Gary, is Wordpress-based and the hope is that more of the site and greater amounts of content will follow, including a more modern design once the need to accommodate the current forum’s style has passed. There are those on here who think the new front end is ■■■■ and, now it seems, credits me with no imagination as to the possibilities a new website brings. Visually and in terms of content the aim was get something live and working before moving on to the bells and whistles, hopefully with a group of volunteers rather than it all being the task of just one person. If you e-mail Gary at gary dot smith@mx5oc.co.uk I’m sure he’d be happy to have some help. Be warned though…I’ve got a pretty thick skin but the bored keyboard-warriors with nothing better to do than whine about the good-old-days have stopped me wanting to bother helping, or even visit the site, much any more.
Karl
PS - All posted without any problems, again.
I can only recall making one double post. I inferred that the posts were uploading but the site was slow to serve the response. Since, I have clicked once and all has been well.
If the site needs upgrading to accommodate more volume/data, then fair enough. And anything can be improved. But I have no complaints.
It’s running lovely and quickly at the moment, 20:53 13/11/17
Thanks Steve. Email sent.
Hi Gerry,
I’ve had a quick read through this thread, and as Karl & others have highlighted I currently (with Next Step Heritage) look after the front end.
We did switch the theme of the main site last week to that it was more mobile friendly, so some of the menu items have moved slighty, and from your description it sounds like you are/were experiencing the mobile interface. I’ve had lots of positive feedback, so please feel free to email me over any issues you’ve been having.
Equally if you have ideas that would benefit everyone, then please let me know.
I think that your Mazda videos comment is valid, and there is actually a page of them…
However, what I’ll do is to make this make more easily accessable.
Gary
gary.smith @ mx5oc.co.uk
It’s a bit hit and miss here.
I made a post earlier, it hung so long I closed my browser down, went on another forum for a few minutes. Came back and the post wasn’t showing, I thought blow it, can’t be bothered any more or words to that effect. Now that post in question has finally made it, maybe 10-15 mins later??
BTW you’re doing a great job, must be a nightmare taking on the running of the forum, just gets screwed up sometimes by forces that you’re trying to control.
Hi Gary,
I have to say it’s refreshing to see someone not averse to criticism, I welcome your comments. But then Yorkshire is notable for it’s ‘down to earth’ outlook, but it still makes a change. I did browse your link, and while it’s also both interesting and illuminating, it wasn’t what was in my mind when I suggested a Mazda (official) video from the past, such as the old Zoom Zoom one, an inspired commercial if there ever was one.
The XR videos are good, but too long for a front end introduction to our website. However, it’s a welcome suggestion that you make Yorkshire videos more accessible, so anyone new to the car and the Club can see what owners really think of the car. The present photos on the home page are good, but static, whereas a video would make a refreshing change as an introduction, though I grant most Members will ignore it. The same applies to the static photos,(Been there - dunnit!) so they don’t appeal to prospective new owners or existing members either, but that’s just my opinion after all.
All things considered, I’ve already said above what I have to say, so I won’t bother you further, except to say the home page is our window to the world, and I would prefer to see it far more impressive. Having served on the Committee between 205 to 2008 along with Clive Marshall (a good and bad experience)- I would say his drive to make the Club more professional did meet with my approval, and in that sense I’m one of the few apparently left with that aim in mind. That the Committee then was accused by some as having a ‘corporate’ attitude was taken on board, but as the aim was for the benefit of the Club per se, the drive went forward. With membershop now up to 7,000, I believe the aim was justified.
Our experience with Mazda has been an up and down experience, but we seem to be on an UP trend at this time, and as begging the use of one of their old video would require their permission and approval, my feelings are it’s worth asking at least, it would be help them as much as it would help us to make the front end look like we welcome newcomers to the car and to the Club. That’s it - 'Nuff said!
Best regards
Gerry