NC keeps up with an NA on track tyres
Its not all about speed. That was the whole point of the original MX5. Even in 1989, William Woolard recognised the car wasnāt overly endowed with power, but he kneww then that Mazda had succeded in discovering for itself, like Porsche, Jaguar and others had done, the automotive Golden Ratio. Then itās lost its way.
- Zero competition. 76,500+ MX5s sold
- Zero competition. 31,000 (down on 2018) (2020; 27,000, arguably, 2020 sales boosted by COVID cheques)
The ND is faster, more powerful, more economical, safer, multitude of driving aids, handles better, better made, better sound system, better roof, nicer wheels. What happened?
Glove box and popups obviously.
(Peak NC sales was in 2006 @48,000, then declined to about 12,000 by 2014. NA sales dropped to 27,000 by 1997, but it was facing a fair bit of competition by then. NB sales started at 58,000, then dropped to about 24000 by 2004-5)
The NA might be āoldā, but then, vintage wine is better than beaujolais.
Bob Hall, the Father of the Miata, once said:
āThe NB is a better car, but the NA is a better Miataā
If you want to know which Mazda 2-seat RWD convertible is the best car, then its the one sitting in the nearest Mazda dealership, in whatever shade of grey they are making them now, with that nappa leather interior, forged wheels, Brembo brakes, on a sweet lease deal.
Obviously I am being flippant with the glovebox. Its obviously the popups (or, using the technical term, barndoors), and I am serious.
Popups are a quirk. All great cars have a quirk, (character) the hand of the designer showing through.
The original NB had a bit of character, or quirk. The hand of a particular designer shows through. Some thought the NB MX5 was inspired by the Dodge Viper. It was, but they are looking at the wrong end. One of the Dodge Viper team, Ken Seward, shaped the NB. But the bit he really really worked on was that rear haunch. And thats the Viper bit, the character of the NB.
The NC; the quirk I think is the space behind the seats. Under that plastic panel, why is it there. My theory is the Ibuki concept; Mazdaās concept hybrid roadster, that signaled the tictac NC look. On the Ibuki, the space behind the seats was to be occupied by the aircon compressor, which was going to ventilate the seats. It was needed there because the hybrid generator was upsetting the weight distribution.
But Mazda lost its nerve. Instead of a market defining new product, Ford made sure they went with a Me-Too product; good enough to hold off the GM Kappa twins, but no more. The clever, fit for the 21st Century driveline was replaced with basically a Ford Focus motor hooked up to the old gearbox, The void is a useless quirk, a reminder of ambition that was lost. The NC was presented to the world by a fairly dour Moray Callum (from Ford), with some nonsense Jinbai Ittai marketing. 9 months after what should have been a career defining role in the continuance of one of an iconic car, he was back at Ford.
Th ND is an extremely well designed car, as any car designed by a multi-manufacturer committee would be. Is the omission of the glovebox deliberate, an affectation, a quirk?
Sure, the NA MX5 wasnāt the only car in 1999 to have popups. Toyotas had them, whether Celicas or MR2s. But they popped up to reveal angry looking square lights. MX5 lights popped up to reveal happy looking 7" H4s straight out of the Ark. Intentionally or not, those headlights set the character of the MX5, captured by Mazdaās ND launch video.
If you want to know which is the best MX5, then it will be that 89 model, the one with the smooth diff carrier, no subframe braces, Momo 3-spoke steering wheel, 14" wheels, black cloth seats. I donāt have one of those, so I have to make do with a 270k km 1996 model, my 5th, which Iāve had since 2005. I do know where the 14th RHD is for sale, not quite early enough to have that smoothie diff, but its closeā¦
The real purpose of the popups
Very good.
I wasnāt talking about speed. I was poking fun at the statement a 30 y old car is as fast as an nd
To be honest if both cars are well sorted to stock specifications and a consistent driver test both the nd would be faster purely because it can cary the same speed into corners but it has more power.
Every car can be modified to do whatever the owner want however the NC and later the ND are much more refined vehicles compared to the earlier versions. The wishbones are now cast aluminium, they are stiffer, gearbox on the nc is better than the earlier versions (the nd they made a new design and it had some issues with the early versions). New cars have more powerful engines that can easily get into 200bhp and still be naturally aspirated.
And when you say the nc is heavier are you comparing the phrt? How much is the difference when you add the weight of a hard top onto the earlier cars. Donāt forget the NC has some similarities and share some components. It may look similar with the RX8 but shares no structural components with it. The mx5 chassis was developed specifically for the NC. Suspension has been changed from a 4-wheel double-wishbone setup to a front wishbone rear multilink setup on the NC. There are components from the RX8 that will fit but they will be over engineered for the NC - unless specifically people want to use these parts for performance upgrades.
I know Iām not going to convince you but you look at this discussion with your heart rather than be objective. All mx5 were built for a specific purpose. Mazda did get a few things wrong but generally speaking the engineering and development behind the cars is sound.
However customers are irrational humans that very often go buy cars with their heart rather than their brains (thats probably why JLR and Aston Martin is still in business). Iām not a purist, Iām tall and wide enough to have issues sitting in most small sportscars and until now the NC with lowered seat is extremely comfortable. Its so comfortable that I can use it as a GT car, its nimble that i can thrash it on the track, its got a retractable roof so i can see the shy yellow blob and smell the flowers and occasionally the manure. True it doesnāt have eyes⦠but does this mean its not alive? The numbers show it didnāt sell as well as the earlier versions. So what. Its the perfect car for some⦠including me.
Are You Less Confused
Learning Point : Donāt Ask a Bunch of MX5 Lovers āWhat is the Best MX5 to Buyā
Because the Truth is
They All Are
So It Boils Down to Which Individual Vehicle
Speaks to YOU Personally [Head & Heart]
Because [Like Any Other Make/Model] ā¦Every MX5 Model Comes With Itās Own Unique āPersonalityā Based on Itās History & Experience & Ownership etc
NO TWO ARE THE SAME !!!
But What ANY MX5 Model Will Give You is āLoads of Funā
AND [Incase You Havenāt Noticed Already] a Bunch of Members/Visitors Who Have a Wealth of Knowledge & Understanding of the
MX5ā¦Life the Universe & Everyfing
Good Hunting
Iād agree, theyāre probably all as good as each other, in some way.
Iāve owned a very early NB for six years now. Itās a great car and very sound. It drives like a new car. But Iāve no desire or reason to buy another.
Just remember⦠the answer is always 42ā¦
This needs another one of these, because someone thought there was seriousness in an implied statement that a 1.6 NA is as fast as a 1.5 ND. Its obviously not, though ultimately that depends on the driver, and the willingness to drive a brand new, leased car to the limitā¦
Just checking whether someone iimagined I said that, or made a Freudian Slip. Nope, never stated that in this thread. But since you reminded me, it was a Freudian Slip
NA `1990; 990kg, give or take, 2005 NC; 1075kg, give or take. 85kg difference, just shy of a heavyweight boxer.
So comparatively, lardy.
Iām not here to be convinced, nor debate. My response was convince the OP of the merits of the NA MX5, in the face of relatively nouveau MX5 owners promoting their favourite copy of the MX5.
Miata Is Always the Answer
Dittoā¦Personal Preference
But Thatās Not Helping Our Poster !!!
NO IT ISNāT !
Itās Personal Choice !
As Forum Moderator I Respect Your Authority and Vast Knowledge of the MX5
As You Continue to Demonstrate
But Sometimes
Us Lesser Mortals Have to Learn By Our Own Mistakes
In post 2 i said it really depends on the individual and whats important to you.
If you want owning a classic yea an NA is an option. You will likely to spend loads of money in it repairing rust and upgrading the tired stuff howeverā¦
The NA is a classic but as an old it really lacks in safety and performance compared to newer stuff. Popup headlights aside do you actually think there merits daily driving one over a later produced car? Iām not talking about driving or owning an old classic. Iām comparing two cars one made 30y ago over one made up to ten years ago. Do you actually think the older car is on par with the newer stuff? I personally would not want to have a crash in one. The performance stuff we already talked about.
Generally speaking i think although you said you wanted to convince the OP of the merits of the NA MX5 in reality perhaps unconsciously you are biased towards the NA.
I think which mx5 to choose is an individual question the answer of which will depend on the individual and whats important to them.
One thing is certain, you will be hooked for life.
MX5 actually
I agree because the only way to decide what suits the individual is to test drive them all.
As far as not having a crash in a Mk1 or Mk2 is concerned, Iād rather not crash in anything!
Just an opinion for what itās worth.
Personally you have to think what you want the car for?
Do you like an open top most of the time?
Do you want a PRHT?
Do you want a soft top?
Will it be parked on the road, drive or in a garage?
Colour?
Trim Level?
Leather/heated seats?
Do you want to buy an āOlderā car?
If so, be prepared to spend some money, time and hard work keeping rust at bay.
Running and maintenance costs?
Consider the service history, (very important, well they all are really)?
Your skill level at fixing things?
Do you actually want a project car?
Whether you want to modify the car?
Your budget?
The āLookā of the car?
Will it be your daily driver or just a fun car?
Fuel consumption? (Iāam not bothered about ours as just for fun).
Weight? (some of the comparisons above donāt really make logical sense).
Are you carrying a passenger, full/half/empty fuel tank, luggage, power of the car, engine size, engine power upgrades, tyres/wheels etc etc, all a mine field.
Your priority on the safety aspect of the car if involved in an accident/collision?
What āGizmosā do you want or insist on?
Those that you are not bothered about?
UK car, or an Import?
Some are happy to buy a write off and do it up?
So as you can see, a fair amount of questions to ask yourself, (and not an exhaustive list by any means).
Someone will tell you that the ND is the best thing since sliced bread, or the NA is more fun/nimble, the NB looks better etc etc.
For me they are not.
I/we adore our NC Sport Tech 2.0 3.75 and have owned since 2016 with one previous owner.
BUT, others wonāt like it.
I come from a lifetime of biking and did all the above and hence our choice.
Test drive it first!!
Itās all about āPersonalā choice end of really.
Itās another Bob Hall quote
Miata Is Always The Answer
Eunos Roadster actually.
Or is that Mazda Roadster
Or Miata MX-5
The prejudice against non-European spec MX5s is something that had its origins with Mazda Cars Limited, ever since (and before) they tried to get the MX5OC to ban members who didnāt own a UK spec car. Sad to see it still lingering after over 20 years. The NAs are all the same and Bob Hallās observation doesnāt work with the anodyne MX-5 name (Mazda eXperimental project number 5). Maybe they discovered they couldnāt fit the name on the hastily designed rear Euro finisher.
Miata was the original name. They couldnāt use it in Japan, because it sounded similar to a bicycle maker. Initially, Mazda Europe had no interest in the new model, and so the āEuropeanā version was relatively hastily cobbled together (non-integrated rear foglight).
Yep !
And I Meant to Say
Us Lesser Mortals Have to Learn By Our Own EXPERIENCE
Well, less to go wrong.
No PRHT to fail.
A gearbox that doesnāt disintegrate
A diff that doesnāt throw out lumps of metal
No nanny aids to fail, and stop me from driving in a straightline
No first world problems (Mazda Apple Car Play etc)
An engine that doesnāt throw a conrod through the side of the block
Glass headlights that donāt go hazy
Headlights that donāt cost Ā£600 a piece
Handbrake on the right side.
A rear window that zips down, increasing utility
I donāt need parking sensors to park the thing.
A boot that holds two bags of golf, if I ever chose to take up the pastime
A glovebox
Mechanical throttle
And NB, NC and ND owners will draw up their own lists of advantages, some of which would be applicable to me, most wonāt be. Youāve got cupholders, I grant you that.
My rust is fixed. Appreciation meant, it has, in a way, cost me nothing. Continued appreciation means the NA is extremely cheap car to own. Pull some numbers out of the air; 20% of the cost of ownership, 90% of the fun? NCs will eventually rust, but it looks like at the wrong point in that depreciation curve. NDs will eventually rust. Cars made of steel always rust. Part of the cost of ownership.
Am I biased in favour of the NA? Yes, which I why I recommend it, over all the other variants, which I have sample on or around launch time. Every submission in this thread is biased, as owners want to champion their own particular choices.
āPot Calling Kettle Blackā
Springs to My Mind