Which mods do you declare?

[Reman]

The insurance company says “All modifications need to be declared” !!!

If you left the road and crashed into a Ferrari dealers forecourt causing £3,000,000 of damage, Your insurance would be looking for any little thing that would allow them to nullify your policy.

If you did this and they found a different engine in your cars wreckage you’d accept that they’d get stroppy about it… What about different wheels? A strut brace? Cross drilled discs? Chrome vent rings?.. At what point is an undeclared mod OK with them? At what point would they look at your modification and say “Well, It’s only an aftermarket XXXX, It would only have pushed his premium up by a few quid, I suppose we can overlook it and pay out the £3,000,000 claim despite the fact that he was technically in breach of contract.”

Nobody likes having to pay insurance companies every year, But what’s the point of paying it if your getting a policy that might not cover you when you need it?

I declare EVERYTHING !!! (Even down to the fact that my replacement boot lid has a brake light in it but the original didn’t).

Scotty B.

[Phil_S1]

 I mainly agree with Scotty.  Declare everything.

However it does seem sometimes ridiculous to declare some stuff.  I never classed mudflaps as a significant mod but I found out (see above) that some Insurance companies do.

This brings me to how minor can a declarable mod have to be.  For instance would you declare car mats, or (lets get really silly) a tax disc holder?

You’d have a list as long as your arm if you declared every minor thing and I think Insurance companies ought to give better guidance on what should be notifiable and what you can ignore.

[Mazda_mender]

However it does seem sometimes ridiculous to declare some stuff.  I never classed mudflaps as a significant mod but I found out (see above) that some Insurance companies do.

This brings me to how minor can a declarable mod have to be.  For instance would you declare car mats, or (lets get really silly) a tax disc holder?

You’d have a list as long as your arm if you declared every minor thing and I think Insurance companies ought to give better guidance on what should be notifiable and what you can ignore

 

 

This has been my point right the way through this thread. How silly is the line? To what I’m picking up and reading anyway, it’s all down to the individual insurance company and how much they want to rip you off for at the end of the day, for something that we have no choice but to have by law anyway.

I mainly agree with Scotty.  Declare everything

 

But I do agree with Scotty and Geoff ect that to cover ourselves, just in case the nasty does happen, but like I have said before, they have us by the short and curlies anyway.

Regards

[Reman]

they have us by the short and curlies anyway

The only way I know of to stop paying out to insurance company’s and be able to modify to your hearts content is to go self insured.

I think how that works is that you need to buy a bond of some kind and have a lawyer write something up and hold the bond for you as a sort of collateral. From then if you don’t have an accident you haven’t payed anything more. On the other hand if you do have an own fault accident you have to pay the full cost of the other party’s losses or it gets taken out of your bond… On the down side, I think the bonds are something like 3 to 5 million quid to get in the first place… So probably not that practical for most people… But it IS an alternative option none the less.

Scotty B.

[01mx5]

You’d have a list as long as your arm if you declared every minor thing and I think Insurance companies ought to give better guidance on what should be notifiable and what you can ignore.

 

I agree.

It’s not as clear cut as ‘if it makes it makes it more desirable to a buyer, it makes it more desirable to a thief’ - else we’d all be declaring our OC stickers & tax disc holders.
It’s not even as clear as ‘if it impacts performance’ either - can you imagine phoning your insurers saying “hi - I’m going to put some Redex in my car tomorrow, and just wanted to make you aware - will it increase my premium?”.

What nobody’s touched on so far (I don’t think!), is modifications that don’t impact performance, and you aren’t visually noticable. For example, if you wanted to switch your ‘dummy’ oil pressure gauge to a proper working one.
You could argue it’s an engine modification, but it in no way impacts performance, and would only ever be noticed by the driver, when the car’s moving, so doesn’t make it more desirable (to thieves) either.  

It’s not as straight forward as “anything that’s not standard” either, because where do you stop? - Do you declare the wipers you bought in Halfords, for example? - You could argue they don’t clear the screen as well as genuine Mazda ones, so you’re less likely to see the road…

 

Without doubt, the best answer to the original question is ‘phone and ask’, but when it’s 50p a minute, and they have to repeat everything you say to their supervisor to get the answer - it ends up costing a few quid (and taking half an hour), just to be laughed at, and told ‘no sir (/madam), we won’t charge extra for your mats’.
Insurers could/should make it a lot clearer, and (morally at least) should accept some responsibility for people’s ignorance of the regulations/requirements.

[Geoff_Walton]

Without doubt, the best answer to the original question is ‘phone and ask’

That’s all that needs to be said on this issue—

 

just to add, I said that on 21/1/2010

[01mx5]

That’s all that needs to be said on this issue—

 

just to add, I said that on 21/1/2010

 

I think what this thread has largely focused on, is where do you (realistically) draw the line - and while yes - the best answer is to always to phone and ask, just to be safe - we all know that’s it’s ridiculous to phone about some things which - if you were being incredibly petty - could be classed as a modification.
I’ll hopefully be re-painting my grill before the spring rally - it’ll be black, as it was when new, but likely not the exact shade (unless somebody can tell me the paint code for the standard grill on a 2003 Sport?) - should I phone Admiral and let them know I’m painting my black grill black? It won’t be original after all.
What about if I take it off, and then decide I’m not capable of such a complex task, so put it back on, but in the mean time lost one of the original screws, so have to replace it with one which is not 100% identical - have I modified the fitting?

The clip that holds my breather pipe in place broke (or rather, somebody (who in all honesty was not me) broke it) a few months back - it’s now held together with super glue (and doing its job perfectly well) - but you could argue that since it’s not 100% as it was when it left the factory, so it’s been modified.

If I replace my juddering clutch with the (genuine Mazda) modified non-juddering part…

See my point? - You can take the word ‘modification’ to an absolute extreme - one which we all know insurance companies won’t care about, so somewhere between a turbo charger - and a slightly different screw - is the point that you 1) Should phone your insurer, just to be safe. & 2) Need to phone your insurer, because you could never plead ignorance (“I didn’t think a jet engine on the back would make a difference…”).

If you can just take 30 seconds and phone up, and ask a question that would be fine - but insurers (especially non-specialists) don’t work that way.
For a start, for some reason they’ve always got to look up your policy, regardless of what you ask them, which means you’ve got to tell them your life story so they can ‘verify your identity’ for ‘your own protection’.
Then you need to explain to them as clearly as you can what you want - they then go to their supervisor, and ask them. Inevitably they come back to you with a question (typically covered in what you already told them).
Then they go back to their supervisor again (who is clearly a good example of the Peter Principal) who still doesn’t grasp it, but obviously felt forced in to giving some bizarre response. So, you have to clarify the situation with the guy on the phone (who for some reason won’t let you speak to their supervisor directly), who has another bash at explaining it, and this time comes back with a response that sounds along the lines of what you expected, so you assume they’ve grasped it. (When in reality they’re probably wondering why on earth you’re telling them you burnt what your grilled bacon so now it’s black).

 

Even if you have the list of “Modifications you do/don’t need to declare”, if you bought your car used, how do you know what was standard fit? - Especially on a car like an mx5 which has precisely 50 million special editions.
My car has a low-fuel warning light. I’ve always assumed it was made after Mazda started fitting them - but maybe it was a mod by a previous owner.
Ask a dealer, you say? - That’ll be the same dealer that when I asked for a set of wiper blades for my 2003 mx5, asked me if it was “for the front?”

But that’s a whole other can of worms (and should be discussed in another thread)

[Geoff_Walton]

Ramsay, there is no definitive answer to the question. It is different in every case. No, you wouldn’t bother telling the insurer about a new grille, or a different screw. But I would a new set of dials a new radio, a set of aftermarket jap market mirrors, a luggage rack I could go on.You guys apply whatever criterion you feel best, the one who decides at the crunch time is the guy you pay your money to. I know which conversation I would prefer—

[davidsuffolk]

removed post as already covered

[Tim1]

 Always declare mods. It often doesn’t increase the premium but even if it did, it’s a small price to pay compared with an insurer declining a claim so you’re left to foot the bill.

[Geoff_Walton]

Always declare mods. It often doesn’t increase the premium but even if it did, it’s a small price to pay compared with an insurer declining a claim so you’re left to foot the bill.

Halle blood luyjah—

[Scottishfiver]

 Quite.

Around 1984,  Celica GT2000 & I were totalled by a U-turning Volvo estate which had been fitted with a towbar, heavier duty rear springs, and a few otherwise “OK” aftermarket bits. All dealer fitted, pukka Volvo stuff.  Her insurance company told her to get raffled, and left us both out of pocket for months while she cobbled the cash together to pay me out of court. She ended up remortgaging her house! I did not have any “sue her azz” added to my own otherwise fully comp insurance, so there was a lesson learned. Now when I see cars with bits added, the first thing I think of is that bad day &  “bet the insurance company would like to know” Sometimes to grasp the nettle you need to be the victim. As it happens, my insurance company were not particularily interested in the K&N, Raybriggs, or MX5 parts exhaust but I got a very small loading for the towbar.At least I know they know, and have cover without question & just when I need it. I faxed them a copy of the bits and I keep the confirmation reply stapled to my main documents

 

 

 

[01mx5]

Always declare mods. It often doesn’t increase the premium but even if it did, it’s a small price to pay compared with an insurer declining a claim so you’re left to foot the bill.

Halle blood luyjah—

 

If you don’t like a thread, remember you have no obligation to read it…

 

 

As has been said - some things like tow bars, and suspension changes are obvious modifications. It’s the little things that aren’t, and where clarification is required.

[Reman]

This has just reminded me of something I heard on the radio a few years back.

A bloke bought a new BMW 5 Series and decided to go mad and tick most of the boxes on the options list. A few months after he got it some low life smashed his window and stole his radio. He informed the insurance company and they sent out an assessor (Apparently they’d hacked the dash about to get the radio out). The assessor said that the car wasn’t a standard 5 series because it had been modified from BMW’s original specifications for that trim level!!! He argued that it was all optional extras installed by BMW but they said it didn’t matter.

In the end he had to pay a few hundred quid more (The difference in premium if he’d told them it was “Modified”) before they would handle his claim.

The last part of the story was that he was taking the insurance company to court, But as this was broadcast before the case was heard I don’t know what happened from there.

Makes you think doesn’t it.

Scotty B.

[Geoff_Walton]

If you don’t like a thread, remember you have no obligation to read it…

As a moderator, that’s what I do, read threads

As has been said - some things like tow bars, and suspension changes are obvious modifications. It’s the little things that aren’t, and where clarification is required.

Surely is must have dawned on you guys by now that there is no list!! Every insurer applies their own rules, so the only thing to do is ask the question—

[spokey]

 

“Surely is must have dawned on you guys by now that there is no list!! Every insurer applies their own rules, so the only thing to do is ask the question”

Is the correct answer …

Interesting article on page 28 of 5-11 May Auto Express saying exactly that - bloke had Towbar fitted to his Xsara, didn’t tell the insurance - his policy was void. Some insurers do not allow ANY modifications. Admiral even stated that alloy rims fitted by the manufacturer as an optional extra are counted as a modification -  " confused.com showed that modifications could alter a quote by as much as £1026 !!! "

Spokey

 

[Red160]

As for listing just how illegal you are on a public forum… jeez!!!

 Oh what a bad boy i am

Who do you think will be crying if god forbid you hit and paralysed someone and then your insurance didn’t pay out to them because you saved a few quid or a couple of minutes not declaring mods?

 

 

 

Hear  hear!!!

You should declare every last screw and sticker, most insurance companies aren’t interested unless you are putting more than 10bhp on the performance or lowering more than 35mm anyway, but the fact the mods are there need to be noted.

 

 

[Reman]

Adrian Flux seem to be pretty lenient with regards to mods.

I used to phone them before I did any new mod just to check I wouldn’t get stung with a huge increase in premium, But All they would say is “Fine, Call us when you’ve finished and we’ll add it to your policy” (Once I’d phoned to tell them I’d done it, I’d get them to email me the new list of my mods as proof that they have them on record). Now I just call them and say “I’ve done this as well now”. It’s usually only a ten minuet call and nothing I’ve done has increased my premium, Even the exhaust didn’t change it.

Once (When I’d called to update the list anyway and just out of interest to see how badly engine upgrades would hurt my wallet) I asked for a quote for if I got the Monster Miata kit and put a 5.0 Mustang engine in it? She said "Urm… Hang on… I’ll just have to ask my boss. She came back and asked if I know the BHP of the replacement engine, I said “Urm, I don’t know? 400 BHP possibly?”. She went off to her boss again for a couple of minuets before coming back and saying “That would hike your premium quite a lot” (No sh*t Sherlock ) “And we’d insist you also upgraded your brakes too, But that would take your Premium up to five hundred and…” (I can’t remember the rest, I think it was in the mid to high five hundred and something)… But when you think about it, That was only an extra 200 to 250 quid for TRIPLING the car’s power. It was a bit of a shock that they didn’t ask for a four figure price !!! It’s only because I can’t afford the kit, The engine, The gearbox or the fuel to run it why I didn’t think about the conversion seriously.

All in all, Some company’s are mod friendly and some see us as an automotive equivalent of the Antichrist.

You pays you money and takes your choice.

Scotty B.

 

[Mazda_mender]

As for listing just how illegal you are on a public forum… jeez!!!

 Oh what a bad boy i am

Who do you think will be crying if god forbid you hit and paralysed someone and then your insurance didn’t pay out to them because you saved a few quid or a couple of minutes not declaring mods?

 

 

 

Hear  hear!!!

You should declare every last screw and sticker, most insurance companies aren’t interested unless you are putting more than 10bhp on the performance or lowering more than 35mm anyway, but the fact the mods are there need to be noted.

 

 

 

 

It’s an old post,and as been sorted now,i have my answers from the insurance Co i needed a long time ago,it only turned out to be a couple of £’s more.

Nice to see that the question is of intrest,instead of having a go at me because it was taken the wrong way by some die hards.

But there really is some silly ■■■■ they did not need to know,as they have told me,so many thanks to the owners that took me the wrong way.

Kind regards

[Geoff_Walton]

A last word or two from me—

I still subscribe to the old email list [predates forums by a few years], and this topic came up.

Here are two posts from the same guy, I asked his permission to post them without his name attached. For me it sums up the whole of the discussion in this thread

“Here’s a cautionary tale.
 
Called the AA to swap the insurance from the Merc CLS to the Audi TT
 
What model is it they say - 2.0 FSI reg number XXXXXX etc I am sure I read him the dealer’s description of the vehicle
 
OK sir that will be £109 refund
 
When the paperwork came through I had just read an article about a guy ho fitted a tow bar and his insurance company said that his insurance was invalid when he tried to claim.
 
So I checked the paperwork and it says “No modifications from manufacturer’s standard specification”
 
This, of course, is completely out of date as Audi and many others don’t have a ‘standard’ it’s all options. So I wrote to the AA and said that there is no standard spec I presumed they knew from the Reg No that this was an Audi TT 2.0 FSI S-Line Quattro with Multimedia Navigation, 18” alloys and silver pant (all of which are options) and that I had not modified it since it was built.
 
Whereupon the AA called back and said the the insurance company would not insure such a “High Spec vehicle” In effect I have been uninsured for 2 weeks. They put me on with another company for a few quid more which I was happy to pay. 
 
Just goes to show that you need to get every last detail down including all the options with the nation’s uninsurance companies."

and

“I really think it is time that someone campaigned for a change in insurance company operations. I did not mind paying the extra bit it seems that insurance companies are not playing at all fair by putting the onus on the driver to guess what the company needs to know.
 
As another example - if you do not declare that you had a windscreen chip repaired ‘free’ you are deemed not to have declared a claim - hence insurance invalid.
 
Don’t declare
Tow bar added , invalid
New alloys - invalid
upgrade stereo - invalid
leather seats in place of cloth - invalid
 
I have met a lot of people who don’t understand car insurance at all and think that common sense prevails, they do not understand that insurance companies are happy to take your premium knowing full well that they will turn down a claim.
 
Comparison websites have made this worse. A proper broker should help you. A lot of people think that all you need to do is answer the questions gocompare or the meerkat asks you and pick the cheapest quote on the list.
 
There needs to be an onus on the company to ask specific questions.”