1 Week + 1,000 mile - an unsafe car?

General Discussion Forums MX-5 Chat
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Owned the MX5 ND for a week… my thoughts:

I live in Scotland, and i bought this partcular MX5 while on a trip to Suffolk. I had a 600 mile drive in the first 24 hours of ownership.
This was the 3rd ND i test drove within a couple of days. all had the same (and scary!) traits.

A bit on my recent car background as it may give context to my views: Lotus Evora 400, Lexus LC500, Jag F-type (V6).
I have had the MX5 on my sights for some time, and always considered it a sensible sports car alternative , despite never having sat in one. Due to kids (now 2) i had no choice but to trade down to a cheaper running car.

Power
Its the 160bhp model. I was immediately very impressed on its pulling power! for a naturally aspirated the torque its got between that 2-4krpm is great. Although, my body braces itself for a surge going into the power band which just never arrives. 5k+ just feels dull. Its low rpm ability though makes it a very easy car to drive with less gear shifts being needed.

Interior
The Mazda Connect gave me no end of troubles on my journy. it keep going into ‘device untrusted’ with my phone at various service stops. took some fiddling to get myself back on the road. ive already started on the apple car play adapter and OS update routes. this is priority #2 :smiley:
Ive also fitted 2x new cargo nets into the cockpit. a great addition. when i get into a car ive got keys, phone, wallet which all need to live somewhere, and turning around isnt slick. so now ive got a storage unit next to my leg, and the passenger leg which isnt interfering. bonus!

Suspension
Death. Trap !!
How on earth did this car leave the factory like this. I’m going to be bold here and say that the car in its stock form, is far too powerful for its chassis!
I was aware of lots of youtubers and forums talking about the soft suspension,. but it doesnt feel soft to me, it feels dangerous as a more apt wording.

The body roll is huge and the springs really compress heavily. i think the issue with the instability is the re-bound. once that spring is ready to come back up it throws that corner into the air and the shock doesnt have the flow rate to stop it. making the car impossible to balance in a corner. as soon as you ‘squat’ into the initial turn you feel the outside corners throw you back the other way.

In a straight line too: full power acceleration 1st, 2nd, 3rd has me fighting the steering wheel as the weight transfer from rear > front > rear causing silly amounts of weight transfer that the springs and shocks cant handle (cant blame anti roll bars for this movement).

i test drove 2x MX5s with the oem springs and bilstein shocks (20k miles, and 40k miles), both drove the same in this respect.
I test drove a 3rd with the bilsteins and the mazda Eibachs > now this really was a suicide-sled! even as gentle 40mph corners the spring rebound gave the sensation of the rear always trying to overtake the front. and had no noticable difference to eliminating the body roll i heard much about.

Overall
Love it. dont get me wrong, its a great car. But now ive gone through a few tanks of fuel , i think theres alot to be said for some of the ‘same old’ reviews out there which seem to just focus on there being alot of body roll without addressing the inherent instability that goes with it.

On a plus note, ive just gone to BBR and bought the eibach sways and the YellowSpeedRacing coilovers. Priority #1 is to keep me alive. :smiley:

Downforce and tyres will be next, before i consider adding a single BHP to this car.

What do other owners think, if you remember you initial impressions of your NDs?

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I have an ND1 and remember it stock. I think your take on the suspension is a bit extreme and I drive mine enthusiastically (before and after I had it modified). On standard suspension mine was a bit fidgety. Low speed, wet roundabout, turn in, lift off to allow weight transfer, and the car would rotate on you (but it was predictable and I was lifting off on purpose after I discovered it did it…). I also had mismatched tyres, although latterly at least identical across the axles before I changed the wheels and tyres. I suspect I had more grip at the front than the back. Unsafe? Not in my opinion. I had no straight line issues even before any modifications. I think you need to check the wheel balancing and alignment as well as the tyre pressures and condition.

Downforce? When are you going fast enough on a public road to need more downforce? :laughing:

Glad you are having fun though :+1:

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If I felt a car was that unsafe I’d return it to whence it came at the vendors expense and ask for a full refund. Hope you find a solution that works for you.

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I love the down low torque of my ND1. Seemingly the 2/3 facelifts trade this in for more top end. That might be more to your preferences but day to day driving usually makes use of low down grunt. You spend more time a 2-5k than you do at 6+.

I quite like the softly sprung nature of my car. It allows for insanely good ride quality and it is teaching me how to be a better driver. I enjoy working with the weight transfer, feeling the outside tyres load up with the roll, balancing it as it comes back the other way. I even enjoy a light dab on the brakes to load the front up before corner entry.

I imagine to an intermediate driver that the above traits do make the car feel somewhat compromised but options to tune the car to your exact preferences are absolutely endless (and usually affordable). I plan on piling the miles on my car and will study suspension revisions if an when a shock fails or a spring snaps but I love the car stock for what it is.

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My AE30 at 40k miles, all stock except replacement tyres has never shown any of the traits you mention. Obviously a sudden boot of accelerator in the wet isn’t a good idea! Also with ND2 it really picks up its skirts at 5k and you are quickly at the redline (only ever in 3rd though officer!).

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I am the proud owner of a stock ND RF 1.5 (my 2nd one!) - I drive my car pretty ‘enthusiastically’ when it is safe to do so (read: when no other road users around) and I genuinely wouldn’t trade it for anything else.

Now, the ND platform is indeed softly sprung, however, in the several NDs I’ve driven and especially the 2 I’ve owned, I have never found the behaviour to be quite as extreme as to what you’re describing even when performing quick direction changes. Every time the car slides it is fully predictable and I can easily catch it and even keep it on the edge of grip and have a bit of fun with it and I’ve never felt any sort of bouncing on the spring as you describe (unless I’m misinterpreting here).

I would recommend a visual inspection of shocks and springs to ensure all is well, and provided it all checks out OK, perhaps get a full alignment done at an MX-5 specialist. The ND platform is very sensitive to suspension alignment

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It doesn’t sound right, I had the 2.0 Sport Nav 160ps which came with Bilsteins I believe and it stuck to the road and I don’t remember any body roll. Even my previous 1.5 held the road well with standard shocks.

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I don’t agree with your assessment at all, with regard to suspension and road holding - but to each their own.

You’re saying you found these exact same traits on 3 different MX-5 ND examples?

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My 1.5 ND does not display any of the traits you are describing. The car is stock suspension (Sport model), on the Yokohama tyres niw at 12k.

As stated by other members above, there is something not quite right with your car, although to have three cars acting the same way is a bit confusing.

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Sorry but there is something seriously ‘wrong’ here. There is either an issue with the car, or the driver. These are well balanced vehicles and in no way ‘dangerous’, unless-----
:heart:

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Mine is a 2L ND1, non blistein SEL-Vav and mine don’t ride/react like the OP’s one

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Hmm, each time I’ve bought an MX5 I test drove several others first, and on a couple of occasions I experienced some of those nerve-wracking symptoms.

However it was almost always a problem with the tyres, usually grossly over inflated, but sometimes also very, very old. On later test drives I took along a tyre pressure pencil for a quick check before risking it!

But then I wasn’t buying “nearly new” cars like an ND2, and from long experience I ALWAYS expect to immediately change tyres with an unknown history for high quality new ones. After all, they are the only things keeping the car on the road.

On the two very low mileage cars I finally bought, in each case the DSC light was flickering with slight movement of steering or a touch of right foot on either pedal.
Fortunately, taking off ancient hard OEM Pootenzas (with 6mm tread!) and putting on nice new “named” tyres took the cars from tiptoeing on ice to gripping like a limpet, as they should be.

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Some while ago now, but totally standard car.

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Rockingham… what a track!

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My ND 1.5 is 8 years old and it holds the road well - non of the scary stuff you described.
Handles like a dream, powers well out of bends and well behaved!

I have had training to race on track, and know how a car should feel going fast in and out of bends on all sorts of cambers. My 5 fits the bill! Never felt unsafe in it in any weather - just slow down for pot holes!

I agree with Richard FX - most likely to be a tyre problem. I co-ran a Racing Tyre Business (albeit motorcycle tyres) and tyres are crucial to a smooth, balanced, safe ride. Have you had your wheels balanced? There is also tracking, toe in, toe out and a whole load of stuff to check, before looking at shocks/springs.

I replace my tyres - like for like and always in pairs as soon as an advisory flags up - sometimes before.

Hopefully you can get a satisfactory resolution to your problem.
Good luck.

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I’ve recently bought a 2.0 ND1 as well. I remember some of the odd weight transfer characteristics from when I test drove one when they first came out, and a priority for me was to find one that someone had already spent the moment sorting out. Mine has the BBR Koni dampers and their lowering springs, which in my mind completely resolve the issue. To the point where I’m glad it doesn’t have updated ARBs, as it’s still really progressive and predictable. I’d suggest having a chat with BBR about these in comparison to the Yellowspeeds if you’re going to mainly drive on fairly average roads, as they’ve got plenty of travel and compliance.

Interestingly, the BBR Super 200 conversion leaves me feeling there’s a lack of torque below 4000 revs, but mountains of it between there and 7500. My last MX5 had a big supercharger, so the torque was there from very low down, which I might be a bit spoiled by, but I’m learning to just enjoy revving the nuts off the new one. It’s amazing how BBR have really transformed the character of the car without ruining its underlying nature.

As I think others have said, it’s really worth getting your wheel alignment adjusted. Mine has BBR’s fast road setup, which has plenty of turn-in sharpness but doesn’t feel at all unpredictable. Still a little vague at the straight ahead.

Clearly I’m being a bit of a BBR fan boy, but I think they can make your car feel the way you’d hoped it would.

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my guess it would be overinflated or chinesium or old tyres.

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“Death Trap!” I can’t imagine a car getting the handling plaudits the ND has if it is a death trap. If you want an example of a “Death trap” try a TVR, Triumph Spitfire (pre Mk4) or some mid engine sports cars. Are you used to driving front wheel drive cars with understeering characteristics (boring but safer for your average driver) or cars with over-nannied stability control systems that drive themselves. If I were you I would get the suspension geometry checked by an expert like Paul Roddison and possibly set up to minimise oversteer. Sorry about the way this may sound but I just can’t understand anybody describing the ND as a “Death trap”.

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Like track driving in 20mph Wales

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No, way too cryptic.