Hello I have recently joined this fine club and have been avidly reading all the technical posts in search of a way to properly retrieve fault codes for our new purchase from Japan. I have looked everywhere for a obdll port only to discover I don’t have one. Yes I have looked by the interior fusebox and have found nothing there. I have found the diagnostic box under the bonnet though and even have a codes list (4 digit) sent to me from Japan and had translated to english for easier understanding. They also included a diagram which shows a analogue needle type volt meter to measure the code with needle movement. I believe the led light and jumper wire would show me the same code.
I still am not sure though how to interpret my findings. The information I find on this forum tells me that those code flashes only work up till the year 2000. Then obdll came in for the mk2.5. Well mine is a mk2.5 but has no obdll because it was made for the Japanese market only which I understand was not obll compliant till 2003 or so. So do I still read my codes as if my car was a mk2 ? How are the flashes interpreted with the four digit codes?
I had a code last week which seemed to be two long flashes then a short one then seemed to repeat over again. That code makes no sense and I am sure was misunderstood by us. The car was running rich with alot of condensation coming from the tail piece after it warmed up a bit , it idled fine when cold but after it warmed up it was starting to idle rough and if put in gear it ran horribly and threatened to stall.
We changed the plugs, tested the coil packs but no issues were found other than plugs that indicated a rich running condition. While it was idling rough we pulled the plug on the mafs which made no differenceat that time.
After all that we decided to reset the ecu by pulling the btn fuses under the bonnet and holding the brake pedal down for 15 seconds or so.
After we put the fuses in place and restarted the car it ran very well even on the test drive afterwards. We did pull the plug off the mafs again when it was running well and this time the engine did not run well but as soon as we plugged it back on it ran fine once again. We had initially suspected the mafs as the problem but I feel its not now.
I assume the problem will return after some more driving, by then I hope to learn how to read the fault codes properly for my mk2.5 with no obdll diagnostic port possibly with help from one of you fine fellows my plan is to wait till the problem reoccurs to better understand whats happening with a fault code to start with.
Its -23 celcius and still winter like weather for the next week, so it will be a few weeks before I can properly drive it
So sorry for the long story but I feel the more I give the better it will be for others to help. Thanks for reading, we have a 7 hour time difference as I am in Canada but I look forward to any response. Cheers!
The flash code on these is put out in blocks of 4 for the 4 digits on each code. The code then repeats. It is confusing enough to read one code but if there are multiple codes you will really need to concentrate. When the code(s) come back, I would set up your LED and take a lengthy video, perhaps in a dark garage for clarity. You can then analyse the video at your leisure to work out the code(s). Put a link to the video on here if you would like a second opinion.
Tony - Didn’t you get my PM sent yesterday? Or have you given up on me?
Also - you need to clarify what your car exactly is, as you seem to think it’s an NBFL, and I say it isn’t. There are few discernible differences between an NB, and a NBFL, headlights are one, shape of the grille opening also, and some say rear lights, though I’m not sure about them. Somebody published a photo of the two models side by side, as a comparison, but as we have ceased using Photobucket, I guess that is long gone.
THe overall appearance of the NB and NBFL are the same, the body shape didn’t change, just the headlights, shape of grille, and the addition of the OBD socket.
So - are you near a dealer, they could confirm model, or anyone nearby with a NB, or NBFL? Or post a photo of the front end on here, and we can tell you what it is. Our Mazda trained mechanic assured us ages ago that a 2002 model would have come with an OBD socket, and as far as we are concerned, that included cars delivered to Europe during August 2001, as we have some 2001 NBFL’s manufactured in that year. (mine was built late in October of 2001) As I said before, in a PM, production of NBFL’s may have started in Japan earlier in Japan, to get here for August.
We still have inquiries from owners of a NB, who aren’t aware that it’s an NBFL, and even the odd one who thinks they own an NBFL, when it’s actually an NB. Apart from the differences listed above, most are unaware they have, or don’t have an OBD socket available, with the result that codes read from the under-bonnet diagnostic socket don’t jive with OBD readings. Or vice versa, depending on the NB/NBFL question.
Despite what Drumtochty said above - I’m not aware of an OBD port fitted to an NA (Mk1), though I’ve never asked that on Miata.net. Certainly not in Europe. Someone on here (SAZ for instance,) may enlighten me on that one hopefully. As you have a JDM car, built early in 2001, then Proof may prove difficult, but it can be resolved. - If it was advertised as a NBFL, and bought on that understanding, not much you can do about that now, except accept it for what it is, and I think it’s an NB. (with no OBD socket) - It’s still a good car.
By the way - the code you sent me (two long and one short flashes), is code 0100, which as I said in my last PM, is a fault with MAF connection, and I listed the things you need to check. If you keep unplugging the plug to the MAF, you will introduce more faults in the PCM register. (Three faults usually clocks up on th sengine warning light) Incidently, you don’t need to remove main fuses to clear fault codes (painful job) just disconnect the battery negative, then repeat the ‘press brake pedal’ routine, this discharges the PCM ‘back-up’ battery - and clears any faults stored. Any disconnection of main feed (battery or main fuse) will also negate any radio security settings, so if there were any, you will not be able to use it till the code is reset or redone. JDM radios are usually changed anyway - as past remarks suggest Jap radio frequencies are different to either USA or European ones. ( I have an old battery radio intended for North American radio, and it’s virtually useless over here. Shame really - it was great in Canada, I even used it to drive the PA system when we did the new terminal at Toronto International Airport (1963), just by plugging in the headset socket. My Buddy told me a while back that building was gone, shame, as it was an advance on airport terminal design. One of my proudest achievements, audio-wise. Tempus fugit.
Sorry, nearly forgot, my sympathies to the people of Saskatchewan who may have lost an offspring in that awful smash last night, Great loss and I can understand their grief.
Not done your homework Gerry on this one. On if I remeber the Phase11 NA Miatas.
They had a crank sensor as well as a cam sensor and this was used to allow ODB11 dignostics to be used to trace faults in the emmissions sensors.
Many clips on youtube showing it.
Now the latest here is that the rules that mandate ODB2 on cars are based on an independent garaege being able to run diagnostics of the emmissions systems. Fiat and Chyrler and some other are now only allowing diagnostics of the emmissions sytems on thrir newest cars ia the ODB2 socket and requireing registration with them to use their own specific code readers to perform any other action. The EC are processing leglislation on this. See below.
From professional motor mechanic.
The old saying, ‘you will miss it when it’s gone’, is coming to fruition. The first vehicles with restricted OBD connector access have hit the market. This access is now limited to emissions related-data and diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) only. Perhaps surprisingly, this is legally possible, as although the basis for the beloved, standardised on-board diagnostic (OBD) connector is contained in European legislation (Euro 5 – (EU) No. 715/2007), which is in turn referenced back to UNECE vehicle type approval requirements for both cars and trucks (UNEC Regulations 83 and 49 respectively), these type approval regulations stipulate the physical connector, pin assignment, emissions-related data and communication protocols, but mandate nothing more.
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These new vehicles – currently the FIAT 500L, 500X, Doblo and S Class Mercedes, as well as likely including other Mercedes, BMW and VW models later on – still have an OBD connector, but when you connect your multi-brand diagnostic tool, only emissions data is accessible. FIAT has recognised that access to more vehicle functions and data is necessary, so has therefore provided a system that generates a certificate which will provide access. However, this process is only possible once you have registered your details with FIAT and are using its dedicated WiTECH 2 diagnostic tool. Not only are you potentially telling one of your biggest competitors who you are and what vehicles you are working on, but you will have to buy its tool to allow you to work on said vehicles.
There are two elements that pose a threat to the aftermarket (specifically relating to FIAT/Chrysler vehicles). Firstly, there is the manufacturers’ ability to legally restrict access to vehicle data. Secondly, there’s the continued development of the ‘connected car’ automated vehicle control systems cooperative intelligent transport systems and, ultimately, the fully autonomous vehicle is also restricting aftermarket access. The secure exchange of data with the vehicle is a fundamental pre-requisite, but this should not be at the expense of competitive services that support consumer choice.
If you look at the FIAT diagnostic process, not only does it require registration, but it also imposes the use of the FIAT WiTECH 2 cloud based application on a specific vehicle, at a specific time, with limited duration of the certificate validity. Existing diagnostic tool manufacturers will not be able to conduct reverse engineering – a perfectly legal process, used to create their own diagnostic test routines. Even if tool manufacturers can buy diagnostic data from a vehicle manufacturer and implement it into their multi-brand diagnostic tool, when connected to the vehicle it would not be able to generate a certificate, or use a certificate already generated by the FIAT WiTECH 2 system.
Now consider this after being extrapolated across all vehicle manufacturers; the need to buy diagnostic tools from every vehicle manufacturer is not an attractive proposition for independent workshops, even before you start to add in the annual update costs and the multiplicity of registration processes, certificate requests and (potentially) the restricted access that this may still impose. For example, it is being proposed that certificates would be issued for each system on a specific vehicle, so if you are working on the brakes and now need to work on the engine… voila, two certificates are needed and they may not be free of charge! It is also being proposed that the data needed for testing of electronic systems as part of the future MOT test will be defined and controlled through the use of one or more certificates.
So, what is the way forward? Firstly, the implementation of the FIAT certificate process almost certainly introduces some ‘non-compliances’ with existing Euro 5 legislation, which will need to be challenged at a European level, but also there is a need to look at the wider picture and the core principle of using certificates. There are several ‘cascading’ elements defining when a certificate may be required – it isn’t necessarily every time a diagnostic tool is connected to a vehicle, and even when something is connected, it should then depend on what data or functions need to be accessed. For example, connecting a diagnostic tool in the workshop with the engine off/ignition on and the vehicle stationary should not require a certificate to read data or a trouble code. However, when the same circumstances exist, but the technician wants to re-flash the ECU of a safety relevant system (e.g. ABS), then a certificate may be appropriate.
Further security considerations are introduced depending on when a vehicle is being driven. Even though a diagnostic tool or plug-in device monitors some ‘read-only’ data and may seem innocuous, it still needs to be designed in such a way that its requests for data are not so frequent that it could overload the CANBus and cause a vehicle operation problem. Perhaps, in such cases, the certificate should be more about the verification of the design functionality of the device, rather than an access control function. When it comes to controlling the function of the vehicle’s safety system whilst the vehicle is being driven, it is intended that this will be possible as part of the ITS functionality, but using a tightly controlled certificate system. Ultimately, it is clear that certificates can provide the required level of safety and security of as part of the ‘inherent security of the vehicle by design’. What is also clear is that if certificates are going to become a future requirement for accessing a vehicle and its data, then the procedure for accessing and using them is going to need legislative control to ensure continued ‘access all areas’ in support of undistorted competition and consumer choice.
Glad to hear from you fellows, I appreciate the dedication you all show for this forum and it’s members. It is fantastic to have people to chat with who are so willing to help as required, someday I hope to reach that knowledge level and do the same.
Rhino666. I believe I have an accurate code sheet sent from MAZDA in Japan provided by my importer. I had to translate it but I think it’s the correct one. I will post it if I can figure out how.
Drumtochty, so I should be able to retrieve my codes from under the hood then? Well I had assumed that was the case but was unsure my code list was a match for all of yours given the fact yours were read with a obdll tester. Good to know and thank you for answering my question.
Gerryn, ha no I haven’t given up on you. I just didn’t want to continuously pester you. This was a general question about the codes and the fact I have no obdll port which was an anomaly that all should hear about.
I believe I have a NBFL as I have the factory fog lights and the removable ashtray that goes in the cup holder compartment. My avatar picture shows my car and the auction sheet . I will post more when I learn how.
Gerry I will send you a pm soon with a bit more history of my ownership, my skill sets and questions. Talk soon. Cheers
The system is very similar but not the same as the MK2 with no post cat lambda sensor.
All onboard diagnostic cars have a post cat lambda sensor to test the catalytic converter output and compare to the precat lambda readings.
America and the Miata were ahead of the game with onboard diagnostics being fitted to Miatas from 1996 - probably the Nader effect. Wasn’t aware of any differences to the combined cam/crank sensor though - I thought that remained the same for all NA cars throughout the entire production period with the entirely different separate sensors introduced on the NB.
Eddie - thanks for the further information, and the rest of your post indicates that with some makes, it can be a minefield. So - yes, I stand accused of not doing my homework - but no reason in the past to delve into it further. Having had to learn new trades several tines in a lifetime, it seems I am still learning about MX5’s world wide!
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