Below is a couple of pics of the rear subframe taken from the wife’s 2004 1 series BMW would you belive this car has a full dealer history until last year and is imaculate in all other ways
Needless to say I’m writing to BMW to ask how a car serviced and moted by a main dealer can corrode so badly without so much as an advisory on any mot until a fail this year
Amazingly I found a reconditioned one for 70quid delivered
Here we go…
"We have studied your issue and note the content.
Clearly, the vehicle is considerably past the extensive BMW warranty
Given the age of the vehicle in question we feel that such issues are in keeping with the age of the vehicle and as yet have to be informed of similar instances.
In addition, we hope you may appreciate that BMW cannot monitor how it’s vehicles are maintained beyond the warranty period.
We will consider what actions (if any) are deemed to be practical, should we be bothered to escalate your particular, even unique issue, to our Dealership Network.
Part of this decision may involve contacting main dealerships to enquire if they are aware of similar issues. Which we doubt. It’s a BMW.
Finally, BMW pride themselves on the Emphasis in Engineering, but we empathise with you given you have somehow ended up with a potentially lethal rotting sitox."
We recommend you should be more investigative in future with your old cars, and not come whingeing to us again.
What do you expect from an old slapper Sir?
However we do empathise."
As said, your car is old. If I recall correctly the average life of a car is 13 - 15 years,
and has remained so for a long time.
The image of BMW as a quality manufacturer, Teutonic thoroughness etc, is more due to
image management than anything else.
In 1986, my brand new BMW 325i had it’s M-Sport/M-Technic/Whizzo rear gas
suspension collapse just by sitting outside my house overnight. The car was 2 months old.
And then there was all those head gasket failures in BM’s of the '90’s.
You’re possibly quite lucky that it’s just your chassis that has melted.
All I’m going to ask them is how the corrosion can go Unmentioned on any of the service reports surely something as dangerous as that would Warrant a mention anyway I’ll let you all know what BMW have to say for themselves in the next few days
And of course with the early straight six cam-in-head engine, the cam journals wore out amazingly quickly requiring a new head and camshaft, as my sister discovered with her very rare 2000 Touring hatchback from the 1960s…
At 13 years old it is at the end of its life.The 1 series is not a premium BMW any hatch back of that age will be at the end of the road.BMW is a volume manufacturer.
You all seem to be missing the point my question to BMW is how did this corrosion go Unmentioned on any of its service reports nothing to do with age the fact that it’s the same main dealer that has carried out the work and completely ignored the state of the subframe when it’s part of the check list
I think we get more than you think we do.
I for example quite pragmatically renewed our Mk2.5 rear wishbones at 12 years old 2 years back which were equally perforated.
The rot spots were invisible from simply looking up it the chassis on the 4 post but I wanted bushes changed…and when they dropped them out, that’s when the issue was spotted.
So, looking at your old stuff, is it safe to say these rot perforations are (were) facing up the way too?
I doubt if detailed investigation of hidden chassis components are specified in a (basic) MOT check…which is the rub.
Furthermore, what looked fairly OK last year on your car can rot right through very quickly.
Returning to iron ore is not a linear process.
That’s Main Dealers & old cars mate. Chin up!. Worse happens on the M25 at rush hour!
I’d certainly not be putting any car so far gone out of warranty into a main dealer …but that’s just me.
Each their own.
Nope what you are looking at is the underside of the subframe this was clearly visible from underneath and as I’ve been working on cars for over 32 years I’ve got a bit of an idea about them I also have BMW’s technical information system so I know what’s involved in the service schedules and this car clearly hasn’t had the schedule followed to the letter hence why I’m contacting BMW
Interesting .
Do you happen to have photos of the chassis…eg…was the perforated section hidden by the exhaust system for example?
As I said…what looked OK-ish last year can accelerate very quickly…as you know…with mild steel once rot has got a grip.
A bit like my Mk2.5’schassis, inner wings, sills, and arches!
I’m sure we will all be interested in the BMW response.
Ah, rust. This subject crops up regularly, not just on this forum, but I’m sure on every motoring forum.
I can sort-of understand Phil’s indignation about his rusting Beamer. After all, BMW market their cars on a ‘Quality Product’ platform, and with most cars these days lasting fifteen years plus, one could reasonably expect a ‘class act’ like a BMW to surpass this considerably. Perhaps he was just unlucky.
The trouble is, that cars are generally made from mild steel, and this material will corrode - end of story. One can try to protect one’s pride-and-joy of course - undersealing, cavity wax treatment etc - but in all probability the dreaded ‘tin worm’ will win through in the end - unless car manufacturers begin making their wares from stainless steel anyway.
The trouble is of course, that car manufacturers are in business to sell units. The only way any business can survive, is to create a regular turnover of product. If a manufacturer makes a poor product, word will get around, and nobody will buy it - end of business. Paradoxically, if a product is too good, it will last too long, and nobody will NEED to buy a replacement - end of business !
Striking the happy medium is the goal, but this is not easy to do, especially as once a car (in this instance) is out of the factory, the manufacturer has no control over how it is used or looked after (or not), or how or where it is kept etc etc etc.
Another thing to consider perhaps, is that sub-frames, and items like them, are generally made from thicker material than (say) ordinary body panels, and should last longer !
Should the garage have picked up on the corroding sub-frame before it got so bad ??? The 64,000 dollar question ! When I was an MoT tester many moons ago, we were told that car components, such as chassis members and sub-frames etc, could only be tested by MODERATE THUMB PRESSURE - no hammers or pry bars or spikes were allowed - that was deemed to be unfair. It may very well be the same today, and as one man’s moderate thumb pressure is likely to be different than the next man’s…
It will indeed to very interesting to hear BMW’s response.
Good luck Phil.
I’ve towed cars off the beach, stuck in salt water pools up to their doors, seen cars parked on the front with sea spay all over them at high tide, there’s a dip in the road in Northwich that floods with salt water from the salt works to 6ins deep, drive through and the underside is soaked in salt. I spent weeks getting the corrosion of my motorcycle after riding through that one! Thing is you don’t know where a cars been, but never buy from the coast, the hills or Scotland or any where where they salt the roads. Oh well just buy a new one! And change every 3yrs, it keeps all these foreign companies in the manner in which they have become accustomed.
And the British people working in their UK factories! For the time being at least!
There is of course, a lot to be said for buying a new car every three years. You get the best years of the car’s life, without ever having to worry about repairs, or your pride and joy rusting out.
Until 2005, I had never owned a new car, nor actually had I ever driven a Mazda. Then my wife was given a new Mazda 6 as a company car - we were both bowled over by the quality and finish, and indeed the whole feel of the thing. Another new 6 followed in 2008, and then our first MX-5 in 2011 - another company car (very nice boss !). We were extremely impressed by the three Mazdas we had had, and enjoyed over ten years of trouble-free motoring.
It wasn’t until a change in company car in 2015 (to a VW Scirocco), and subsequently the purchase of an 8-year-old MX-5 as a second car in 2016, that we joined the OC, and discovered that Mazdas were not actually the ‘bees knees’ that we thought they were, and our eyes were opened to the reality of owning an older MX-5 !
Having said that, this current 5 is fab. Terrific condition and low mileage to boot - we’re very pleased with it. Concerned probably about what the future may hold in terms of underbody rust etc, but so far very happy.
The down side to having a new car every three years, is that when a model changes, if you want to keep up the trend, you have to have what the manufacturer makes. Neither my wife or I were particularly fond of the ND shape when it appeared in 2015, which was one reason why we decided to get something else (the Scirocco).
So we have now been drawn into the world of ‘older car ownership’ again, because we wanted to keep our NC. Oh well,that’s life !
The biggest downside, which you haven’t mentiioned, to buying a new car, or one up to about 3 years old…
is quite straightforwardly the waste of capital in doing so. The first three years is when the absolute max of depreciation takes
place.
I used to earn substantial amounts of money, as a self-employed person. ( Or more exactly, the director and only employee
of my one-man company ), and technically my car would be the ‘company car’. I was always conscious though, that it was me
who had to go out, drive up and down the M3, to earn the money to pay for it. Not some invisible corporate structure.
You are quite right of course, about the massive depreciation of new cars.
We certainly couldn’t afford one anyway, but as I said before, all our new cars in the past ten years or more, have been company cars, of which I was lucky enough to have the use of, and apart from a little extra income tax, all we had to do was fuel them !
I’ve owned mk1 and mk3 mx5 and had a lot if rust on rear diff on mk3 and tom I pick up a brand new mn4 I been thinking is it worth spraying parts underside at the end if the summer with some clear protective product to look after it something like ACF 50 what’s peoples views on this on a new car
I am using ‘Duck Oil’ on all the suspension parts and diff. I am certain they will rust if they are not cleaned and oiled regularly, at least twice a year. The rest of the underside, sub frames and box sections are Waxoiled. This will get a top up every few years.
It worked on our Mini which is now 25 years old and still looks good, no paint work being required on it so far. If it works on a Mini it will definitely work on an MX5.