BBR MK3,5 TURBO

 

pitty your missing the next run… but Silvertone sounds just as good. I’m planning on being at the social on the 19th so will hope to have a look then, if you don’t mind - I think you’ll need a FAQ sheet to hand out…  :-)


I thought I would comment on this thread with some initial thoughts having now had this conversion done by BBR to my Mk3 2.0 Kuro a few weeks ago. But I first wanted to run the car for a bit to get the feel of it before gushing forth with how ‘great it is’ and so I’ll try to keep my feedback as objective as possible:

Firstly, this is a premium price tag for what is being done, so anyone doing this mustn’t go into it lightly, I’m sure the price stacks up in terms of R&D, parts and labour, but in the overall performance mods world it is a top end cost. Secondly, I’d say with BBR you need to focus on the product, workmanship and performance you get for that money as it is a small specialist outfit, not a big upmarket car performance firm that you may expect with marques such as BMW, Aston or Lotus etc.

Having said that, once you get the car back you have a totally new driving experience that is several leagues above that of the standard MX5 - you basically have Porsche/M3 levels of acceleration and performance, so you start to see what your money is getting you, and the more you drive it, the more it makes sense. The MX5 is noticeably on the edge of its comfort zone with this level of performance in terms of handling, so I’m looking at how to manage that in terms of either mods to suspension/brakes or whether to try and cope with the current set-up (which is quite realistic and do-able). I would have liked a rolling road BHP graph, but apparently this wasn’t needed as the road test data gives accurate BHP figures and mine is running around 300BHP, and when you compare that to other cars having this level of power on tap in a car as small as an MX5 is significant!

So, I can vouch for being very happy with this conversation and it transforms the MX5 into a real sports car. However, the caveats above should also be borne in mind by anyone considering this.

Hi Silver one 

I agree with all you have said in your post, i`ve just got my car back from Paul at RODDISONS after having a set of Meister R shocks fitted and corner weighted and Geometry set up

I thought mx5`s handled well standard, now its just got better

i drove home a completely car its 10 times better thanks Paul, it does`nt squat like it did, with 300horse the exhaust tailpipes nearly touched the floor before, it feels more stable and less wallowy, and wheelspins less because the suspension now keeps the tyres on the road rather than compressing the shocks if you know what im trying to say. and yet its still driveable not a rock solid back breaker, soft enough to soak up our potholed roads but firm enough to support body roll.  

as you said in your post it now needs better brakes so thats next on the list ,my thoughts are big brake upgrade kit or at the very least better discs and pads and a fluid change because it definately needs them after 15-20mins of hard work they fade and dont inspire much confidence.

overall every time i drive the car (everyday) it still puts a massive smile on my face you can tootle about or enjoy the power, but power is nothing without control !!!  

Get Paul to fit his pads front & rear to your car they transform the brakes, for little cost.

Never give up on track & bite from cold.

MeisterR’s are excellent had mine for two years now.

What width tyres you running.

Maybe need wider wheels & tyres, running 8J myself.

Hi mate
Glad your pleased with it…

It’s a pleasure to work on such a nice car…

Paul

Are you driving this on the road or track? On the road you must be driving very hard to get fade with the standard setup after 20 minutes.  

 

Considering it costs a lot of money before and after dyno graphs surely should be a standard part of the upgrade. So I find that puzzling.  What is road test data ? Surely that varies depending on conditions at the time and is very unscientific? How does that confirm you have around 300bhp?

Andy

 

Road test data I would assume is data logging to ensure the Air/Fuel ratios are correct.

Hi Andy there really is nothing to be puzzled about. Silver one would have been more than welcome to before and after power graphs, but we do not find the need to thrash client’s cars on our dyno unnecessarily when we have already verified results for BBR turbo conversion levels 1 & 2 on 4 other MK3.5’s. Stevieh is right, all parameters are logged on the road (identical to what is logged on the dyno), we know exactly what mass airflow to see at a given boost pressure throughout the rev range, our conversions are all the same!

A dyno is very good development/diagnostic tool which is exactly what it should be used for, our MK3.5 demonstrator will be on the dyno next week to finish development of our stage zero conversion. This will complete our turbocharged conversion range and we will then issue a prompt final press release along with full details of each conversion level. Our MK3.75 press car which will run our stage two upgrade, with freshly developed BBR turbo spec suspension and brakes will only be put on our dyno if the weather is too bad for final setup/mapping on the road. Look out for future road tests/editorial on both cars!

Cheers for the comments guys. I think one item that also needs attention are the tyres… Mine has the standard 3.5 Mazda tyres and seem to slip easily - can anyone recommend a good make/model of tyre that significantly improves handling on the 3.5?

Thanks everyone

 

i can highly recomend the bridgstone re050  great tyre good grip levels in dry and wet.  they are not to noisey, sound levels i think are important in an mx5, they are nto exactly quiet!.

If you want a good soft summer tyre toyo proxies t1-r are good but dont last too many miles. Yokohama Prada spec 2 are good as well.

 

They would be the only 3 tyres I would contemplate putting on ym car. Personally i would go with the bridgestone purely because the other two are not as good in the wet :slight_smile:

 

cheers,

 

brad 

 

 

 

Hi ‘silver one’, 

one of the best 205/45/17 street tire you can put on the sdandard spec wheels are the Michelin Pilot Super Sport. They are miles away in terms of grip and bite compared to the RE050A, Toyo T1-R, and the list can go on. Probably as close as you can get to track spec tires, and they also work in wet. As a matter the fact using this tires will show how ‘weak’ the standard Sport suspension is.

One can go to wider tires, some people like 215/45/17, and that is a good move since you find more tire models and slighlty cheaper. Though there is no Michelin PSS in this size sold in UK. 

Though, for a MX-5 with more than 200hp, I would go for a 235/40/17 tire on a 17x8 rim. Though there is not easy to find rims and you have only a few tires. But if you want a great summer setup go for a Toyo R1R in this size. 

 

Adrian

Very helpful, thanks :slight_smile:

Macadam - when you say <how ‘weak’ the standard Sport suspension is> do you mean it shows the original suspension is actually quite adequate and the tyres let it down, or it shows how bad it is?

Macadam - when you say <how ‘weak’ the standard Sport suspension is> do you mean it shows the original suspension is actually quite adequate and the tyres let it down, or it shows how bad it is?

Well, neither really. In my opinion the MX-5 MK3/3.5 is a well balance platform, bar a few tweaks (geometry adjustment, lowering springs if one fancy those, and a ECU map) which I think are normal for a rather cheap mass produced car. With (some of) these tweaks addressed, the car is a very sweet ride. And the stock RE050A tires aslo contribute to this balance.

Now, if one start pushing the platform in one direnction, it messes out the balance. Going back to the point I was making about the Michelin PSS and the suspension. The stock suspension (and it includes the Sport suspension) is rather soft and under-damped. So with grippy tires like the PSS you’ll want to push harder in corners and at that point the suspension is starting to giving up (too much body roll, it unloads too fast in quick direction changes, etc).

To summarize it, changeing to some gripier tires when solve the problem when you have twice as much power to the rear wheel, but will start showing some other weaknesses. Sure, the car will go faster in a strait line with some better rubber, but for me that’s not the point of a MX-5. If you need/want more grip you should think about a complete suspension/tires upgrade.

 

Adrian  

 

None of the above.

The Michelins are a good shout, I used to use them on road.

I now have two sets of wheels & tyres, 16’s with winter tyres (not been stopped by snow for past two years)
& 8J wide speedlines with Federal RSR’s with 215/45/17.
The amount of grip is amazing & even on wet roads seem fine, they are also suitable for track use.

With 300bhp on tap you will be getting through tyres at least make sure they have some grip to start with.

Get your alignment done by someone who actually understands these cars, this makes a huge difference.

Hi just to answer a few questions 

Yes I do drive my car on the road but because the car is quicker i tend to brake harder and more often if you give it some stick then realise its a bit fast for the conditions you tend to brake more if you see what i mean (plod, traffic etc),

the standard suspension is fine until you try putting 300bhp through them then they do feel soft it used to squat so much you would`nt believe, a friend of mine said the exhaust tail pipes nearly touch the road when you accelerate hard.

as for tyres the standard tyres Bridgestone RE050 were fine again until 300bhp put through them, but now RODDERS has put the Meister R`s on and set it upSmile the supension keeps the tyres pushed into the road instead of the power just compressing the shocks.

So my future plan is to find some better pads/discs maybe Big Brake upgrade, 215/45/17 tyres when the bridgestones wear out just to put more rubber on the road,

as has been said before the standard car, power, shocks,tyres, is a well balanced factory set up, but upgrade one area and others have to upgraded too! 

its been a month since i had the BBR Turbo done no complains still makes me smile everyday i go to work n back or whenever i drive MX5 8LOW its still awesome, i took a lad out who works at a Porsche garage in Leeds and he was gobsmacked how quick it is.

Cheers Norman

Hi RR

It sounds as though you may have standard springs on your car? I had mine put on lowered springs pre the turbo at WiMs so the ride seems reasonably solid. So I don’t seem to be experiencing the kind of sharp dip to the back you seem to be describing under sharp acceleration pre your new set-up. My biggest beef is wheel spin on bends and sharp take-off that I think is mainly down to the Potenza tyres the car came with. I’m getting some new ones put on later this week so can report on changes/improvements this brings.

No doubt new shocks will also help, but poor tyres are a major factor too.