Hi all.
What are the best wet weather tyres available for a 2007 Mk3(NC) 2.0 Sport? Presumably they’ll also be equally strong in the dry? Ignore price and focus on handling characteristics. Even if you’ve never used them, what is your opinion?
So I need four 205/45 R16 tyres (don’t get load ratings) that hold the road during spirited drives in the wet as well as dry and which won’t deafen me with road noise.
Thanks.
I assume you mean 205 45 17.
Spirited driving comes in many shapes and sizes and good wet performance does not guarantee good dry performance.
Money no object, Toyo R1R are very good in the wet and will give very good dry performance too. Federal RS-R will be petty much there too although you will have to go to 215 section. )They will fit fine)
For standard tyres, The Kumho KU39 has very good wet weather performance but is a little noisier that “quiet” tyres. There is also the Uniroyal Rainsport. If you want a quiet tyre then Dunlop SP 9000, and as a left field suggestion the Nankang NS-2R which I think is an excellent tyre for the price.
The comment about spirited driving is that all tyres are compramises. The better at one thing the more compromised in others. “Wet tyres” such as the rain sport will suffer more in the dry if pushed hard as their rubber is softer and so over heats more readily. Of all of these the Toyo is probably the best wet tyre, but for the best wet, dry grip compramise then the RS-R.
R1R are £143 each delivered
RS-R are £110 each deliverd.
KU39 are £67.80 and the Nankang £98 delivered.
Nankangs in less than ideal conditions
Thank you very much for your considered reply. Yes I did mean 205/45 R17 and not R16.
I have read a fair amount about Toyo and Kumho and was looking for as many viable alternatives to them as possible, because the most popular may not always be the best. Sometimes people buy things just because other people did and not for valid reasons.
I guess my thinking stemmed from considering how the car would handle in wet conditions taking precedence over any other. As i’m sure you are aware, it’s all important but because I will soon be using a RWD car to drive mainly on A and B roads in Autumn, Winter and Spring, I want the tyres to cope with more than I can throw at them without complaint. If you think the KU39’s can deal with that, then they get another tick.
Incidentally, what load and speed ratings do I need on a 2litre MX5? How do they affect driving?
Thanks again. I’ll be in touch.
Be aware that is the Toyo R1R, not the T1R, that is a totally different tyre.
You need a minimum of V rating and 84 load rating . All of the tyres mentioned are are W or above apart from the Rain Sport that can be had in a V rating (there is a W) and all meet the load rating.
There is discussion that higher load rated tyres mean harsher ride. This is not the case. If you take a MX-5 are 1,200KG and a Mondeo at 1,700KG on the same size tyres then for the same pressure the Mondeo would “squash” its tyres much more. Add front wheel drive where more of the car’s weight is on the front tyres then you need more air to to support the weight. Higher load tyres can take higher pressures to support extra weight, it does not mean you cant run lighter cars at less pressure to support lower weight.
At a guess, is the T1R a track oriented tyre and the R1R for roads? Or do I have this wrong? I have no intentions of track racing my car, so is the R1R a better tyre for me? I just want to stick to the road in relative silence.
You are asking quite a complex question. Sticking you to the road is all relative and in my view should always be answered with caution. I once had a guy ask me what tyres would stick his 750bhp turbo nutter RX-7 to the road in wet conditions because it fish tailed in the rain when he accelerated hard on motorways and it scaredhim every time he did it. When I told him there was not a tyre made that would do that he said “but I turn the boost down to 450 in the wet.” The answer of course relies on the driver, not the tyres.
So assuming you just have a concern that being new to RWD and you are expecting the rear to overtake the front at normal Mondeo type speeds, then any of the tyres I mentioned will be more than adequate. The Kumho is a very good tyre for the price. It’s noise rating is 76dB against 72dB for the others. I really doubt you are going to be affected by that, the MX-5 is not a quiet car in the way that a Jaguar or Merc is. You also have a traction / stability control package on the car too, to help keep things in check. I would add that there is absolutely no reason why ends should be swapping anyway.
If you want to go maximum attack everywhere then as with the RX-7, while tyres can help, all the electronics and rubber in the world will not defy physics so it comes down to the person behind the wheel.
So, for normal road driving, including spirited, but controlled driving the Kunho KU39 will give you all the wet grip you need. My partner has then on her MX-5. I trust them. In the dry they will start to squeal well ahead of the Nankang, Toyo or Federal.
The Rain Sport will also give you good wet grip. However some find it wobbly. Compared to the others it is probably the least precise tyre as the tread pattern is the least stable, don’t read that as dangerous, and will suffer the quickest in dry driving.
The other three are a step up from normal road tyres. The Nankang is an excellent tyre for the price. It clears water well and hangs on admirably in the dry. In common with all these three, grip will increase with temperature.
The Federal is probably the best high performance road, track compromise tyre there is currently. It is classed as a ultra high performance road tyre.it give good wet performance and great dry performance. It is not the best tyre for the wet in so far as if you hit a deep puddle at naughty speeds it may well quicken your heart rate as it may well snatch somewhat, however at normal progress you would have no issues.
The Toyo R1Ris probably the best for outright wet grip. It was launched as a track tyre but was down graded to a road tyre after about a year. It is considerably above a T1R whichis a standard road tyre and not the best in the wet. It is good because it is a soft rubber compound and the chemical adhesion it gets with the road is the best. Were you to go on track with this tyre in the dry and put the car on it’s door handles every corner you would find it over heated quite quickly and suffered high wear, however this is not a typical road situation and so not really an issue, however you would not get good life out of them, around 10,000 miles at best.
For normal, spirited driving the Kumho is absolutely fine and the cheapest option too.
Thank you so much for that excellent definition.
I’m definitely not in the nutter RX7 category but having passed the IAM test, I am soon to take the RoSPA test before moving on swiftly to some coaching from a driving coach who won’t be addicted to Roadcraft. What I will need is not only great dry grip but because of the time of year I’m buying this car, I also want to be able to take it out in wet weather; I have a 4x4 with 17" Grabber AT’s for everything else.
It would appear to be the case that the KU39s meet my criteria well. I’m going to leave the car standing as soon as the heavy frosts start, so are the Kumhos okay to be left on the car over winter, on a drive or do I need to think about that too.
Many thanks Nick.
I don’t know of any issues with them standing.
The car is not dangerous to drive in adverse conditions, you just have to drive to them.
I think you will find the RoSPA course much better than the IAM, even the police don’t shuffle the wheel any more.
Both have serious limitations in the way they teach Roadcraft and there are ongoing arguments about dogmatically taught steering techniques, among other things. That’s why I will take 1-1 coaching. I reckon the KU39s will be what I buy when I take ownership of the car.
Many thanks Nick
I am curious to know now what you are expecting of this car. While drives training is never a bad thing if comes over that you think it is essential because this car will increase yoverstretched.over other cars you have driven. While it is true that wou will be able to induce overstretched far more easily than say a diesel Astra, these are very competent cars and there is no reason for any dramas.
Sounds more like you need a iT car control day which there will be one coming up at Brands Hatch in the next few months. It will teach you all you want to know about understeer and oversteer
What I want from the car is for it to go around bends in almost any weather, without accidentally inducing under/oversteer. I would like to learn how to control under/oversteer too but it’s definitely not something I will be purposely doing on any road, unless I make a serious error of judgement. I’ll keep the Brands day in mind, thanks.
So i’m still having issues with the dealer i’m trying to buy the car from due to the tracking being way out of whack, a chipped alloy and tyre and a rear caliper issue. All this would cost a couple of hundred quid or so to resolve.
I had already paid a deposit for the car before they then began to drag their heels for a week over who is responsible for the car’s evident issues. I argued that the car cannot be sold with a faulty rear caliper (piston?), with a chip missing from the side of a tyre and without the tracking being corrected. They are going to put it through an MoT on Tuesday and I think they’ll be faffing about with the brakes this weekend so that it passes. Aside from this, the car was fitted with 3 Achilles ATR Sport and 1 Autogrip Radial and quite honestly, they’re death traps put on the car to hide the hideous and very obvious tracking issues.
Overall, if they throw in the £260 road tax and new MoT, i’ll pay the balance of the agreed value of the car and get it all sorted. I have already started to log all calls and what was agreed. If it’s not sorted by next Wednesday, i’ll ask for a refund and go buy another Mk3.
Hope that’s not too much info. I just thought it might help you to understand why i’m doing my homework early so that I can get things moving if this comes through.
Thanks for all your help Nick.
Oh and fun. I want driving to be fun.
Quite a journey but finally had four HANKOOK K110 fitted and a Hunter alignment. What a difference this has made to the handling! Early days as the tyres are still brand new but once i’ve put some miles on them, i’ll update my opinion of them here.
I recently sold my beloved mk3 2.0 sport and just thought I’d update my Hankook tyre diary.
I had Hankook K110 fitted for about three years and around 25,000 - 30,000 miles. The only time I drove the car was for spirited drives on twisty roads and on days when I could push my limits a little. I couldn’t fault the tyres for wet or dry grip, and they really hung on during fast cornering. I rarely saw my TC light come on. Aside from a little extra wear on the very edges of the tyres, you wouldn’t believe how much tread was left after 3 years of fun. I’d say they were not even half worn.
So if you are an average car driver, who wants a tyre that won’t wear out for years and which will keep you safe, I give Hankook k110 a vote. I don’t know how they perform with turbo/supercharged cars or on tracks but on the fairly crap surfaces of Sussex, during spirited fast road driving, they were faultless.
Of all the tyre threads I’ve read in recent weeks (a lot!), I’ve found this to be by far the most informative, so I thought I’d resurrect it rather than start yet another ‘what tyre?’ thread.
I’m asking again, rather than just following the excellent advice already offered, because things can change in 3 years. And of course, I want to make my special circumstances clear because they’re oh so different to every other driver out there
Spirited road driving with perhaps a track day or two. I’m a track novice, so I’m not going to be banging in dozens of blistering laps every session. I do roughly 12k-15k miles a year and I’m happy to change my tyres every year, but when I do I’d like them to have a healthy 3mm left and not be on the wear indicators.
I value feel and feedback over ultimate grip. I’ll take a tyre that lets me know what’s happening and gives me a chance to so something about it, over one that grips like a limpet and then pings me into a ditch without warning, any day of the week!
Because they’re going to be on my car for 12 months, they need to work well in all weathers and temperatures. Nick, you mentioned that all tyres are a compromise of some sort, so a great dry tyre may not be as good in the wet and vice-versa. Being honest about my wet weather driving, I definitely take things down a couple of notches and err of the side of caution…not slow(!) but I’m unlikely to be ‘pressing on’ to any great degree. Wet weather ‘performance’ for me is more about having a margin for error if I misjudge, or if I have to take evasive action, while retaining the same level of communication that I get in the dry.
I’m on twisty B roads straight from my front door, so something that needs a good warm-up and is only coming into it’s own at the end of my 10 mile commute is no good to me; does this tend to rule out the track oriented tyres?
The car is an NC2 2.0i Sport, currently standard but before too long go to WIM for lowering & ‘fast road’ geo.
I think that’s it for now!
Cheers,
Rich
If you want to talk to me it is best to call.
The post above has every hallmark of thinking about a situation too much.
■■■■■■…I was attempting to provide a subject matter expert with the information that might be required