Bucket seats? Soft top vs hard top?

Hey I’m new to the forum! I’m upgrading my new to me mk2 Nevada mx5 that was rescued from scrap! Got it through its mot, various news parts, and it runs like a dream so much fun to drive.

Lots going on including lowering springs, will space out rear wheels in time and I want to get her dents pulled and wrap her.

However first up I have two questions that I was hoping this forum could help me with in terms of advice and recommendations.

I’m quite tall and am just in the limit comfort and visibility wise, I don’t want to lose any more visibility.
Im thinking of getting roll bar / cage fitted as I’m not convinced of the safety of the soft top. Not the little hoop bars that go behind the seats but a larger structure. It looks like I’ll have to remove seats to get this installed so I was thinking of installing bucket seats at the same time.

Does anyone have any experience with this, any recommendations for bucket seats that give you a bit more head room? Similarly any recommendations for roll cages?

I could also buy a hard top, and May do this too.

Thanks very much - Helen

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I recommend the davefab rollbar, I’ve got that and a set of sparco pro2000’s fitted but I had to make “adjustments” to make them fit since the flares are so wide at the shoulders

The davefab bar works with soft tops and hard tops

Sprints would be fine but you’re better sitting in some various seats to see what you like the best as they can be expensive - I’m waiting on a good set of cobra nogaros coming up second hand but that’s a pipe dream I think

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That is incredibly helpful thank you on both counts - I’ll look into your recommendations and probably go down the davefab bar route as they popped up on a search too.

I’ve heard that before re the bucket seats, and yes they are expensive! I will go to a couple of meets I think and see if anyone has bucket seats and
would be kind enough to let me try them out first.

Thanks again very much

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Ps the ‘adjustments’ sound interesting! There’s not a huge amount of space to play with is there so it doesn’t surprise me. I’m sure yours look fab though

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It looks great when the door closes as they slot on nicely but it’s not a big deal - I just particularly liked the seats so I really wanted to make them fit

There’s pictures of the process and of the davefab bar and fitting on my build thread “my MK1 1.8 a long winded progress diary”(or something like that) if you can be bothered wading through It - 169 for the rollbar and 60 for photos of chopped parts to make the seats fit

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Rollbars can introduce additional hazards into a car; something else for your head to hit in the event of a crash. Even the proper roll bar covering is hard enough to cause concussion.

There are many many rollbars and rollcages on the market. Only Bethania Garage (“Hard Dog”) have any kind of track record in “effectiveness” (the most common brand fitted to the NA/NB by far, with the most miles).

But lets be honest. For a roadcar, no one is really fitting a rollbar or rollcage for “safety”. its all about looks.

Fitting a rollbar will require cutting out part of the structure behind the seats, drilling holes, and generally hacking up plastic trim. A rollcage often requires cuts through the dashboard. Japanese rollbars (Cusco, Carbing etc) will cause less damage to trim, but will generally restrict seat movement more (generally the main bar will bolt to the floor behind the seats). Weld in rollbars are always structurally stronger than bolt in rollbars, which ultimately depend on a few fasteners to hold them in.


image

This is a Mustang with a bolt in rollbar. The rollbar punched through the floor and basically did nothing.

I ditched my rollbar 10 years ago. Only miss the looks. I don’t feel less safe not having it. The car creaks more, for sure, though.



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I really wouldn’t worry about it punching through if you fit it right

Also when properly harnessed in my head would need to be removed to hit my rollbar, I get that if you have a full cage Inc sidebars etc then a side on impact could cause damage but I really don’t think you’re making you’re car less safe in any way when fitting a properly made and tested rollbar.

Overhead bars from a full cage can be problematic especially for the vertically inclined when wearing a helmet, but I wouldn’t fit a full cage unless it was a pure track car

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Thanks so much for the feedback on the roll bars - it genuinely is a safety question for me, and not about looks!!

That’s why this advice and insight is so important - I have not driven a soft top so low to the ground and while I’m not converting to a track car (yet :joy:) I do feel quite vulnerable with the soft top here.

So it’s not so much that I think I’m going to roll it, rather if a larger vehicle hits me etc or debris flies at the car in high winds (as it did this week in fact) just have something there.

I know side bars are an option but there is v limited space inside.

Is a solution to get a hard top too? I just don’t know.

I do appreciate the advice and recommendations, but please do note it is the safety issue that is my only concern here and if it genuinely won’t make a difference then I will take that advice onboard.

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I wouldn’t drive my mx5 at pace without a rollbar, also lets you fit harnesses if it has a harness bar (davefabs and GC do)

I’m not completely convinced on the door bars, although I know that they 100% wouldn’t go down the side of my seats so that’s another thing you’d have to consider when choosing seats, maybe if they were built into a proper cage I’ve seen some that curve out into the door so you need to chop the door and remove it’s gubbins, I’m sure they’ll be fine but I personally avoid the bolt in ones.

A hard tops not a safety addition as far as I’m concerned, a lot of people take them off for track to save weight and tracks will allow this as long as you have a rollbar, although I think you can get on track with a hard top and no rollbar - track depending but I’m sure someone else can confirm

People report that the hard top with solid fixings stiffens the car up a bit and gets rid of rattles but I’ve never driven mines without it so I can’t confirm

For the hard top i really think it’s just whether you like the look or not if safety is your only priority, personally I love mines but I’m trying to swap it for a red or a black one

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Hi Helen

Welcome from fellow [female] MX-5 Mk 2.5 owner. I’ve had her for 16 yrs and she’s only ever had a Soft Top. No Roll Bar/Cage or any additional protection. She’s been to Scotland and Wales and all over England since I got her 2007.

Perhaps it’s ‘Luck’ or ‘Driving Skills’ but so far no RTA’s [Road Traffic Accidents]

If I was in your position I would spend my pennies on an Advanced Driving Course

[Yes…and if you’re not used to driving a vehicle so low with Soft Top …you will feel vulnerable for a while]

Meanwhile…Serious Respect for Rescue & Restore from Scrap :clap: :+1: :joy: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Oooh thank you all so much - lots to think about. I’ve been recommended an advanced driver course before and it’s something I’d love to do. I will look into this.

Driving my little beauty - she doesn’t have a name yet (shame on me but I want to think about it) - is so pure and so much better than my previous car. I absolutely love the gear box it just feels so amazing to shift her!

Thank you for all the responses it is the start of a wonderful journey, I just want to get the safety side right so I feel confident with her.

I will go to some meets and keep reading this amazing forum and take my time over the next phase, I’m just so pleased we’ve got her up and running it is so worth it!

More updates and questions to follow I’m sure x

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There is only anecdotal evidence either way.

Hard Dog put up a lot of photos of rolled cars with roll bars and without. Convincing until you realise they don’t post photos of where one of their rollbars failed.

The death of a Miata owner at first was taken as definitive proof of the Mousetrap; the idea that the twin hoop style bars would fold forward over the drivers head. Photos were published showing the German made style bar neatly folded forward. It panicked the manufacturer, a small company, to the extent they were commssioning rolltests, The company went under, not sure because of thic, but it didn’t help/

In the end, it transpired the style bar was bent forward by the tow truck, when righting the car. The driver’s passenger walked away with barely a scratch. The car hit a rock in the road at about 40mph, and rolled, and the driver instantly killed when his had struck that rock. A roll bar would not of helped him. Perhaps having the windows rolled up up might have (top was down). Pure bad luck.

I only know of one person killed in a car crash, and he was driving a Mk1 MX5, and he turned it over. I probably shouldn’t use that anecdote to conclude that the Mk1 MX5 is the most dangerous car known with a 100% fatality rate.

The drop test is convincing, until you look look carefully and notice the car is springy; it visibly compresses and rebounds. If your car fell off the 1st floor of a multistory, the rollbar isn’t going to save you. But its a test specified by the MSA-RAC, though is actually meaningless. The Blue Book doesn’t give strength requirements for road cars, just the standard of construction (don’t use scaffolding poles). The main issue is no matter how strong the rollbar is, the MX5 wasn’t designed to have a rollbar. That’s why the the race cars have cages and not bars. Plus welded in…

I’ve haven’t found data to show if you are more or less likely to crash a MX5 compared to any other car.

I found this:

And extracted this:

Some caveats in this data. Its expressed as deaths per million cars registered, so normalised. Rollovers are a subset of single vehicle deaths; single vehicle accidents are when no other car is involved, like running into a tree, driving over a cliff, rolling after clipping a kerb. But this doesn’t include the number of accidents a particular model is involved in. I’ve selected cars most in the UK would be familar with, and which are comparable to cars in the UK

Looking at the data, its important to understand that you not twice as likely to die in the Ford Focus as in a NB MX5. Likely, there are more vehicle miles attributed to Ford Foci.

Possibly you could infer that the death rate in MX5s was similar to the Focus, if, say, the annual average mileage of a MX5 was about half of a Ford Focus.

But its a reminder there are other ways to die in a car besides rolling it over.

Roll over deaths are hard to find as a stat. A EU report, which I think was based on GB states (as GB was the only country to collate such data) suggested 10% of all accidents where there was serious injury involed a rollover, but 25% of seriously injured occupants were in a rollover.

For most cars, being in a roll leads to a worse outcome, generally for the occupants.

So the US data should be interpreted not how likely you are to be killed in a roll, but how good a job a car was protecting you elsewhere.

So taking the NC MX5 (06-08). On the face of it, its the car to be in if you drive into a tree, because everyone who was killed in a single vehicle crash, in that data set were in a rolled car. The NC has multiple airbags, probably a strong shell

Where the NB falls down (and the NA will be worse) is not what it will do when you roll it, but when you crash into that tree. Two thirds of single vehicle MX5 deaths are not involving a rollover, compared to 20% for the very safe, strong Volvo. The NA/NB are floppy cars. Their doors will cave in, maybe that PPF doesn’t help things as far as crash impact (more energy transferred to the driver).

The distribution (US, but likely similar in the UK) of types of car accident:

Front/rear impacts, with the driver flopping around like a demented crash dummy. Either a face full of Nardi-Momo steering wheel a bash on the back of the head with a powdercoated bar. .

A well padded Carbing bar with door bars I had for a well

Went into sprints, wuth a bucket seat. Oops, the padding slipped


A fun day at Curborough resulted in me writing off a borrowed Shoei helmet because of that bolt (it left a hole).

The UK bars are mostly copies or very similar to the HardDog rollbars from the US, so they sit back a bit further than the Jap bars (resulting in them offering less height than the Jap bars, because of how the hood is), Which means its less likely your head will hit it.

But back to anecdotes

I can hardly recall when I ever saw a UK car with a padded rollbar. When it happens, it tends to be B&Q pipe lagging. I ordered supposedly proper padding, and got 6 foot of very nicely soft pipe lagging,

I can understand why some want a rollbar for trackdays; they may have no choice. My days of trackdays are over, maybe the odd little sprint. So in my personal risk assessment (Hazardx Likliehood), I’m leaving a rollbar off. But I miss the look of it.

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Excellent & Comprehensive Response from Forum Moderator ast :+1:

Helen…My Best Understanding is that Forum Moderators are Volunteers :astonished:

End of Day…Your Decision…What Makes U Feel Comfortable

But…Take Your Time

Lots of Info to Process :face_with_spiral_eyes:

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Thank you so much for taking the time to write this - there is so much information in this post, hugely useful and insightful. I’m so grateful! Lots to digest I agree so we will have a chat and revert / keep you posted on the next steps. :pray::blush::blush:

Very good - I have a GCF bar in my NBFL, so this is encouragig to see. Obviously in a crash there may also be a forward component that might change things, but the bar is much better than standard, given the windscreen surround disappeared. Thanks for posting.

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I’d trust a single piece rollbar over a multi piece bar every day, the gcf bars are excellent, the only reason I went for davefab over a gcr3 was the delivery times.

I read the link about the person being of the opinion that their head wouldn’t be able to touch the bar but was proven wrong in an impact, interesting read! But I still think I’d have real trouble hitting mines

The floppiness of the body is also shown quite well in the video I think, when tested past the required forces you can easily see the body starting to kink round the bar

In my opinion a good rollbar is a must have if you’re planning on track/sprint or even smashing b roads, the stats for side impacts etc etc are nice but there’s a particular corner at a track near me that loves to flip cars if you aren’t careful (long straight over a blind dip into a bend. people let off over the dip and go sideways into the gravel beaching 2 wheels and rolling the car)

At the end of the day, nobody wants to be testing out the structural integrity of a newly fitted rollbar, but having it definitely makes me feel safer. Imho

Also dash dodging cages aren’t FIA approved any more I believe. Anything with more than 2 bends In the legs doesn’t meet spec so dash cutting will be required for a proper spec full cage. But do you need that? Probably not but it’s food for thought if you do decide to go down that route.

Either way some chopping and drilling will be required

But each to their own!

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Edit - thanks for the stats ast - all very interesting :+1:

I’ve never liked that type of roll bar for this very reason and whenever I see people using it, especially on track cars, I worry. Some seats are very flexible (not stiff) so it wouldn’t take much force for contact (as described) if used with the ‘wrong’ seat. I can also see from your picture the metal surrounding the seat is very close to the driver’s head - again not something I like to see. The space with the GCF bar appears much larger assuming there no photo- related distortion - the seats are also very stiff Tilletts.

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Might if you go flying at Shelsley Walsh…

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6 point harness plus you have to have a solid fixing behind the helmet on the 7 so there is no rearward movement of the head. It looks as though he had arm restraints as well.

I always used the arm restraints when on track. Unless you turn upside down regularly you WILL extend your arms upwards in a futile attempt to protect yourself from the inevitable landing.
:heart:

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I use a HANS on track plus have a 6-point in my car. I have thought about arm restraints - which ones do you use?

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