Apologies if this has been brought up before, or is in the wrong place, but…
I joined South Central on the run up to Gaydon this year.
Someone (apologies, not sure who) asked if I had convoy driving experience when we arrived, which has had me thinking - firstly that it was apparent, secondly that many have not had the experience…
I was third from the back and at a set of lights, missed the opportunity to double stack the convoy in the 2nd of 2 lanes that could turn left, meaning two were stopped by the next phase of lights.
This left them to catch up when they could - with a convoy travelling at around or just under the speed limit.
In the much slower & heavier convoys I have driven in, we were taught to monitor the vehicle behind, and if it dropped back or was slowed/stopped, you were to alert the vehicle in front with a double flash of lights and a decrease in speed, and the convoy would slow to allow them to catch up - with the same signal to pass the message forward to return to cruising speed as you caught up once the back markers caught up.
Should there be an incident, all vehicles pull over and wait.
Whilst stopping a convoy is most likely impossible unless a suitable lay-by or obvious parking opportunity arises on a club run, what is deemed ‘best practice’ in convoy?
What hints and tips can we all use to make it easier, without causing inconvenience to other road users?
After several bad experiences and due to the fact I got fed up following the leader (usually tail end charlie, where the worst happens) you’ve invoked some memories. Yes, there was a convoy guide that was issued to all participating members on their first drive, but following the rules seemed to me to be a case of ‘Catch as Catch can’. A Sunday drive was supposed to be a scenic tour, but you were spending so much time watching the car ahead for any signals or gaps (that lead to ‘break-ups’) that what scenery there was went unseen.
Since then - several years back - I have gone my own way, at my own speed, so much more enjoyable rather than previous local events. In years gone by I went my own way on my jack jones many times, and I’ve returned to that philosophy. Unsociable - yes, but in a Club devoted to sociability rather than the true meaning of owning a sports car, it’s not for me I’m afraid. I can go fast or slow, depending on where I’m at, and where I’m going. Pointless joining a small local sportscar Club, as they seem to be on a time trial rather than a drive of enjoyment. It takes all kinds - - - -.
AS Kev says CB radios seem to be the answer, although having organised many, many runs there will always be those that do not understand the concept of ‘keep the car behind in sight’ or go off on a hoon thereby spoiling it for others.
The only answer we at MX5Driver have come up with is to split the convoy into smaller groups making it easier to keep together. Having said that when faced with roundabouts, junctions, traffic lights and people carrier man who is determined to split the convoy it is getting harder to all arrive together.
But when a convoy does keep and arrive together it is a sight to behold.
The only good convoy is one with a maximum of two cars in it. Anything bigger looks absurd (look , just look at us we’re all in the same car !) , often encourages daft driving , and on narrow roads especially it really , really p**es other road users off.
As the person who led the South Central run to Gaydon I was accused by one person of driving too fast because they got caught at traffic lights and then struggled to catch up (although said person apparently won’t drive at more than 60mph on a motorway) and then later after a planned stop was accused by someone else of driving too slow (only 70mph!) and it was ruining the drive for those who like to put their foot down. It just goes to show you can’t please everyone but it’s comments like this that often make those of us who organise runs question whether it’s worth the hassle, which let’s face it, we do on a voluntary basis.
I’ve organised a number of short Saturday runs and also an annual 4 day trip, the latter involving detailed route planning. I provide detailed route sheets that enable participants to complete the run without having to constantly watch the car in front and behind, or to find their way in the event that they get separated. Even on runs organised by others where we have travelled in a group (I hate the term convoy) and people are following each other I still refer to the route instructions so I know where I’m going and not relying on others who might easily take a wrong turn. I think there are some people who think that organising a run needs nothing more than very brief instructions and a reliance on everyone following the leader. I would suggest it requires rather more effort.
My general principle is to watch and keep up with the car in front. By all means keep an eye on the car behind but the problem with slowing down to keep the car behind in sight is that inevitably the group will end up only driving as fast as the slowest car and that in itself can create its own problems and road safety issues. We increasingly use two-way radios too which is a big help. The issue for me is that some people want to do the run but without having to think about where they’re going and just follow everyone else. That’s fine but it does mean if you do get separated you may lose your way. On the other hand, you could adopt Gerryn’s approach and do your own thing. However, I disagree with his view that we’ve moved away from the driving to the social side of runs. I think it’s perfectly possible to do both. It just needs a little thought and attention from everyone.
Just my two-penneth worth. No doubt others will have their own views.
Club policy is/was at one time no “follow the leader” convoy runs as they encourage bad driving behaviour and are dangerous to all using the road; people jumping lights, stopping to regroup in dangerous places, and speeding to catch up the person in front etc. etc.
The policy is/was that all drivers in a “convoy” have a set of clear route instructions and preferably a navigator and take responsibility for their own actions. If you can then keep up in a group all well and good but if you do get split up then its not a problem as you will of course know exactly where you’re going next. Cars without navigators can buddy up with someone who has a navigator so at worst you only ever get individual cars relying on the one in front to know where they’re going.
This does not stop the big club convoy runs its just makes it far safer and means the guy at the front is not taking responsibility for someone many cars back. Having been on many runs over many years I’ve seen some horrendous driving on Club runs by people who have no idea at all where they are going and are in danger of getting lost unless they break the law and endanger themselves and others.
I suggest a Club AC have a check through the current AC driving guide and lets see what it says now, it might not be exactly that but there is a very comprehensive guide to planning and doing runs for ACs to follow with an emphasis on safety of course.
I remember the first ever run I organised, I had spent a long while planning and driving the route and writing up the instructions, making sure everyone had a copy on the day. One new guy come up to me just before the off and I offer him the route details, and he says “I’ll just follow the MX-5 in front, how hard can it be!” Well on the roads back then it was very hard, and now its even harder, so try not to do it!
I had a uncle who was a driver in the R.C.T. who said that convoy driving was boring but nerve-wracking especially when you came under fire from well hidden “88’s” or were bounced by enemy aircraft. Maybe if people like driving in convoys they should join the military.
Just a thought. It requires a certain level of driving skills, observation etc. to drive singly and driving in convoy must take those requirement to a higher level. Therefore rather than assume that all drivers are automatically capable of driving safely in convoy surely a course of instruction to observe, assess and train drivers up to the required level would make more sense than allowing a herd of inexperienced drivers possibly just “locked-on” to the members ahead and behind them onto our already dangerous roads. As I said. just a thought.
PS: Is “convoy” driving covered by your ordinary motor insurance policy?
Not sure where the good driving guide is on the main club site, it can be found on The Peaks and Pennines site at http://pp.mx5oc.co.uk/The_Good_Driving_Guide.pdf We have had a couple of incidents where members have pushed their luck at red lights, one was at a pedestrian crossing, for which The Chairman received a written complaint. I am now at the stage of ‘requesting’ that all members download (or send to their mobile as a .pdf) a run card to prevent members panicking to keep up, if requesting the download does not work I may regrettably up the wording to 'insist’, with the threat of persistent offenders going for ‘an early bath / car wash’. It takes me many hours to put a run together, so ‘sorry I did nt have time to download it’ is like red rag to a bull’ I try to show postal codes on route for drivers without passengers to put into their satnavs.
I’ve never done a convoy and never will. Surely it’s utterly unworkable unless there is virtually no other traffic?
A convoy where everybody must hold back if necessary to allow the driver behind to stay in sight means everybody is held up if the one at the back is delayed at a roundabout. The one in front could be a mile up the road by the time he gets going.
Absolutely no problem with being sociable, setting off at the same time etc. in a group and aiming to arrive at a destination concurrently, but trying to stay in touch throughout is bad enough with two cars, which I have done enough times to know I don’t like it. Driving while watching the car behind to make sure it is in sight is an unnecessary distraction and certainly ruins any enjoyment for me.
I have done a lot of car runs. I want route instructions, the clearer the better, and the locations of any stops so I can get back on track if (when) I get ‘lost’. Then I can enjoy the drive which is my objective.
I have certainly found myself following/being followed by other cars on runs. Inevitably somebody goes the wrong way at some point and takes somebody else with them. I have also had the experience of catching up with the car I have been following, and eventually discovered I have been following the wrong one!
My comment on the P&P Two Passes Run comes to mind when we learnt that another area was in Bakewell that day -
Please careful which area you follow, we do not want a repeat of the Yorkshire Ridings member in the blue car who accompanied us by mistake from The Stockyard to The Knavesmire in York, he should have visitedClive at Autotronics just 3 miles down the road in Laughton, for a rolling road day !! Still laugh about that now
1/ The one at the front traveled at a little less that the agreed max speed. (lets say the agreed max was the legal limit for that particular bit of road)
2/ You look after the one behind, slowing down to let them catch up after an obstacle, lights, junction etc.
3/ At every major junction (or set distance on motorways) the leader slows and lets everyone by and takes up the rear position.
Whilst on one level there’s merit in inexperienced drivers doing additional training, I doubt there is anyone running “how to drive in a group/convoy” training courses. We also run the risk of having few or no cars going on runs if people are told they are somehow not sufficiently “qualified” and have to do a training course first. And anyway, who gets to decide who is or isn’t suitable to join a run? The organiser? The Area Coordinator? Some other Club official? Does that person then assume liability if they let someone join a run who then gets involved in an accident as a result of reckless or dangerous driving whilst trying to keep up with the group? I’d like to think some common sense can be applied and that people be briefed on appropriate driving behaviour etc at the start of the run. Certainly, if I should ever see or hear of someone driving irresponsibly on one of my runs I would have a word with them, and if they continued to drive irresponsibly I would ask them to leave the run. The problem of course is that as individual members of the public, we have no authority to ban another person from being on the road and following other club cars.
Interesting thought about insurance cover but what constitutes a convoy? 2 cars, 5, 10, 20? Is a convoy deemed to be when cars of the same make/model are travelling in a group or any group of cars travelling together? Does the presence of a set of route instructions mean that person is in a convoy even if they are not within an identifiable group of cars? I don’t know the answer to that.
Finally, I disagree with John M that group runs are unworkable, but I do think that expecting a group of 5, 10 or even more cars can stay together at all times is fanciful. Hence, everyone should have detailed route instructions so they don’t need to rely on keeping up with everyone else, particularly if they get separated at junctions and roundabouts etc.
To be clear, I don’t think I said that group runs are unworkable and if I did I didn’t mean it
On the contrary, I am in violent agreement with the rest of your paragraph, and I love group runs. But I won’t try to keep up with/stay behind the one in front, or spend my time looking in the mirror for the one behind and waiting for them. That would render a recreational drive pointless for me.
When I was teaching my then 17 yr old daughter to drive in an underpowered 1.2 litre 10 year old Fiat Panda she particularly enjoyed driving up the A414 (formerly M10) from St Albans to Hemel and it was a good opportunity to safely teach motorway driving techniques on an A road with a hard shoulder. On one ocacasion we started up that stretch and stumbled across a long convoy of MX5s driving slowly presumably to keep together. She took great pleasure in overtaking them all while staying within the speed limit as up until then she was always being overtaken. It did make me wonder however whether being part such a convoy would detract from the pure driving joy of the MX5.
This memory was reignited when my daughter drove me in our Mk1 to the National Rally at Gaydon this year. By chance we happened to join a small convoy of MX5s as we neared the event and this was thoroughly enjoyable for its spontaneity and enhanced by the site of numerous MX5s on the opposite side of the road at the entrance to Gaydon ( our first MX5 rally so a novel experience for us) - we had a great day!
I have never minded following another car in a 2 car “convoy” but leading a convoy is much harder as a lot of attention is directed rearwards and requires a competent driver behind. My (lovely) sister used to drive me nuts as she would hang a long wat back and then when I slowed down to let her catch up would also slow down maintaining precisely the same distance - Arrggghhh!!!
The concept of convoy driving is very appealing for the idea of a shared experience with fellow enthusiasts but I am genuinely iinterested to know how often these experiences are successful for the majority of the group.
Obviously some folk enjoy them although I am at a loss to understand why. You either end up going far slower than you want , or far more quickly than you are used to. And sorry , but the idea of being part of a group in a similar car has an appeal which eludes me - is it to impress the public , to feel part of a clan or exhibitionism ? I have done a few in Caterhams - two fine, three not so good and more than that often dreadful. One my last pukka run - ten years ago- it only took two idiots to make me embarrassed to be in the same type of car . And does the world need yet another picture of twenty cars parked in the same old places - Kylesku Bridge a favourite - with their owners oblivious to the scenery but taking pictures of themselves taking pictures of them selves ?