I have owned my NB for three years now and still enjoy it. I have got it into my head that I should ‘upgrade’ to a nice NA. The motivation is that it might make a better medium term investment than my current 5. I currently do around 2,000 miles a year. I have owned a NA many years ago. What are your thoughts?
If you want one, buy one, but forget the investment aspect.
If yours is a ‘nice’ NB then it’s not going to depreciate if you keep it that way (which is a cost of course). A nice NA will cost proper money, and even then it will be cheaper than buying a ‘project’ car and restoring it. That probably won’t depreciate either if well looked after, but no one can say if it will ever be worth any more than it is now, especially in real terms.
Just my opinion of course. Some people told Nick Mason he was mad to pay £37,000 for his 250 GTO in 1977. It’s probably worth £50m now.
I think if you’re NB is running well, rust free and no major issues it may be best to keep it. After all an NA would be an unknown quantity and may give you all sorts of problems.
Agreed. Don’t be tempted to buy ANY MX-5 as an investment - unless you’re going to store it in a controlled environment and not drive it for 20+ years.
Apparently - according to Hagerty Insurance UK Price Guide - the second generation Mazda MX-5 1.6i has seen “…a staggering 8.5% increase in price” in 2018. While (if true) that’s a nice comfort blanket for those that have decent Mk1s, it’s no reason to get into them, given their low starting price and current ubiquity.
Rather, buy the one that you will most enjoy owning and driving. If you can buy a tidy and reasonably rust-free Mk1 - and keep it that way - you won’t lose money. But then, that may well be the case with your current Mk2 - particulary if you’re aware of, and have mitigated, the dreaded front chassis rail rot and usual rear sills/arches rust.
If funds allow - keep the NB and buy a Mk1 to go with it. Whichever - buy to enjoy, not to speculate.
HTH
Steve
Afraid my attitude is different, inasmuch as I have never been in the enviable situation where a car could be an investment. No car is appreciating in value when you need it to get around. So any car is either a work vehicle, either to get you there and back to, or use as a run-around while working.
At the risk if getting loads of abuse, I would venture that an NA from an NB is not an upgrade, but a downgrade, all things considered. I’ll not add to that.
Being in the situation when I have to sell my car, I suddenly realise that it costs me - without driving it anywhere, over £600 per annum just for the pleasure of seeing it there, (Road tax and full insurance) so an investment? Obviously not. Cocoon it? - Well that would save £305 per year for road tax and if I had a garage secure enough that I could afford to not insure it, then it would save another £300+ pounds to do that. As such a garage needs to be solid as a rock, watertight and damp tight with no natural light obtruding into unwelcome space to avoid sun damage. This means an airtight dust cover, full carefully controlled constant temperature, with moisture monitoring, all intended to keep the car ‘as new’, when it clearly isn’t. We are looking at several thousand quid here just to maintain it. Drive it? - Not without the private estate needed to do so. Aka any car museum anywhere.
Moving from one car to the other, will tell you that one is a lot noisier
than the other, with more tappet, creaking and groaning noises to contend with
than the other, and no apparent reassurance from body movement without major improvement. Granted, I usually suggest an NA is a great '‘first time’ car to own, but from my POV, an NB is a definite improvement all round. It all depends on the individual who owns one. many of whom will spring to it’s defence. We all have our allegiances, I acknowledge that.
The feeling that a sportscar is ‘familiar’ brings to mind the creaking rattling noisy crates that came in the main from former UK manufacturers who benefited from marketing these cars to the public domain, whereas later models from foreign shores more recently improved tremendously over those. Nostalgia has a lot to answer for. IMHO. There is no going back. Enjoy what you have while you still have it, and can afford it, and the future may well determine what time is left for you to enjoy it. If on the other hand, you can afford two sportscars, then go ahead. your mindset and finances are none of my business!
Thanks wise words. Few cars are investments in the literal sense I know. A friend brought a Porsche 993 convertible 11 years ago for about £25k and it is probably worth double that now even taking account at a guess £1,000 p.a. costs that’s still a tidy increase. He looks after the car but by no means is it cosseted. I don’t have that kind of money sloshing around and I don’t have the space for 2 fives unfortunately. My current car is in good nick and drives well at the moment. A friend suggested going back to an NA (a good one of course) and he is in the classic car trade. Surpringly he didn’t have one to sell!
Solid Mk2/Mk2NBFL prices are stabilsing and indeed rising…by up to 8.9% per annum.
IF…they are genuinely solid, service history/evidence etc.
Only—if.
I’d say keep the one you have.
The return of investment in a newer car given your lack of use is non existant.
Might as well fill a brazier with tenners and light it up for a barbie.
Says whom? And not Hagarty’s. I have seen the raw data used for these claims. Its dubious. The only reliable source for used car sales values are auctions, and Mk2s are now of such an age, likely not that many now show up at regular auctions to give any kind of decent sample size, and they are not old enough to be a regular at classic car auctions
And as a number, 8, 8.9% means nothing unless you put it in the context of the used car market for 15-20 year old cars.
There are reports regarding the general collapse in new car sales (this is global), which is why, out of the blue, Jaguar is now facing the end. Partly this is the car manufacturers’ fault; they have packed cars with lots of extras and made them too expensive. There is evidence that the overall used car market is strengthening (ie. people still want a car).
Back to the original question. I am developing a chain of thought that says the Mk1 will never become a classic car in the investment sense. Time is not on its side. Comparisons are made with various MGs and triumphs. 40 years after the last ones were made, these are still not particularly valuable cars. true, the odd exceptional one will be in the high teens, but most are still around the £3-5k mark, and these are perfectly fine cars. These are still very much usable cars, in 2019; motoring hasn’t changed that much since 1979. But that won’t be the case in 2037 (40 years after the last Mk1 was made).
Mk1s will be seen then as much more anachronistic than a MG Midget is seen today. Its going to lack virtually all of the aids that people will take for granted by then, regarding self-driving. Ok, maybe that doesn’t matter. But what will matter is what goes into the tank; petrol. As EVs become more prevalent, there will be impacts on business decisions taken by the owners of petrol stations, most of whom are small business people on tight margins (hence turning their stores into late night mini-marts). Petrol pumps that are increasingly idle is a lot of wasted real estate. Even before such talk of the end of new petrol car sales, the number of forecourts has been falling rapidly. Its at a 50 year low. Perhaps there will be charging developments to enable to survival of these businesses, but I suspect not. If the government does end sales of new petrol cars in 2040, people might start to think twice about buying a new petrol car in 2030, because the depreciation is going to be horrific. And that will accelerate. Governments will want to tip people to the newer cars.
Most of the Mk2s sold have road tax based on published CO2 emissions. I suspect those brackets will be used to price these cars off the road, and dminish their numbers, perhaps to insignificance. Pre-CO2 cars will likely be left untouched, thanks to lobbying by the classic car industry. they won’t be a huge number, and no one will care.
So it sounds like the future will be rosy for the Mk1 as a collectable, desirable classic? No, because the price of owning one won’t be just the pounds and pence in your pocket. As it becomes harder and harder to find petrol to keep it going (not forgetting the lubrincants also needed), owners will have to adapt how they use the car. Planning a touring holiday. better check the route takes us close to petrol stations. Might need to pack a reserve can, and these little 1.6 MX5s drank a bit, by 2037 standards, but had a titchy tank, giving only 300 miles. Using the car to commute in might become harder, not just because of the need to make sure you can get back home, but also it might become more difficult to park at other end, as more parking spots become charging cars only. Yes, there will be owners who will adapt and get by, and say no problem. But increasingly more owners will have enough and leave the fold. MX5 owners won’t be seen as enthusiasts, but as nerdish wierdos. Seen any steam cars recently? A Mk1 without access to diagnostic devices can get by, as long as you can access trained mechanics with the experience of these cars (interestingly, apprentices who trained on the Mk1 when it came out, would be retiring in 2037). Mk2s (amd Mk3s, not to leave them out); that gets trickier and trickier. If you are going to go through the effort in 2040 of owning one of these strange petrol pwoered cars, that lack self-parking, automatic cruise control, adaptive suspension and the such like, well would you want a prosaic MX5 or a more flashy Aston Martin. I dare say the only steam cars left were the Aston Martins of steam cars, not the Mini Metros of steam cars. Transport is going through a seismic change that will mean in 2040, we’ll look back on motoring in 2019, much as we look back now on motoring in 1919. That will be bropught about by technological changes, but also massive societal changes affecting our attitudes to cars, how we work (ie. working remotely, letting the machines clock on) and how we play.
The value of a car comes down to supply and demand. Supply will be low; a lot of these cars will dissolve away. But where is the demand.? Not many Morris Marinas left, but they are worth nothing, because Morris Marina owners these days tend to be whack jobs.
Of course, this vision might be changed if the classic car aftermarket industry were to come up with cost effective, reliable upgrades to ICE cars to maintain, at least in part, their relevancy. Right now, there are various electric conversions available, but most offer inferior performance and are incredibly unreliable, and demand professional engineer level of tinkering. It was a nice idea by Jaguar to electrofy their E-Type, but that doesn’t provide a template for other cars makers. Can’t see Mazda doing that for Mk1 owners. Its going to have to come from the aftermarket, which we are told is a billion pound industry.
For the next 5 years, keep the Mk2. Excluding tax and insurance, it might cost you £1000 a year to keep on the road (£3000 worth of welding along the way, a few mechanical repairs). A good Mk1, with or without welding having been done, will need welding at some point (poor design of sill, rusting is inevitable), about £2000, so a bit less than the Mk2, but the car will cost your £1000+ more than whatever the Mk2 is worth. And in real terms, probably not really increased in value.
£2000 for sill repairs to a MK1?!
My '94 Eunos has rotted-out lower rear sills (and bottom c.3cms of inners) - you know, the usual mess. Just been booked into Dan at Welding Corner (ex-DoctorMx5) - who’s vastly experienced with proper mk1/mk2 rust repairs. He currently has a LR Lwb full chassis in his workshop, has been entrusted with recent DeTomaso and classic Alfa work - and is about to embark on some Maserati work.
£400.00.
Wrong info. posted - now removed.
In my opinion MK1 will never fetch a lot of money because as with Midgets and Spitfires there are too many about.
Extremely low mileage very early models will of course fetch a premium
£400 incl for two sills. So £200 a sill? The “usual mess” is crumbling lower rear, knackered jacking point, and blown wheel arch lips.
The invoice for my most recent set of repairs:
OSR sill repair, and rebuilt jacking point. Paint to rear quarter. £400 + VAT
NSR sill, arch, internal repairs. Paint to rear quarter. £600 + VAT
Full mop and polish. £100 + VAT
MX5Restorer quotes £900+ plus VAT per side for rear quarter repairs. The vagueness is because, quite correctly, until he cuts the old metal away, he can’t see all the damage. Any place that gives you a firm price before seeing all the damage is cutting corners.
£1100 plus VAT, so £1320. @ 2018 prices. But I was projecting for the next 5 years wasn’t I, and we are about to enter a high inflation period. The best repair panels are German/Swedish, so after March, we will have a 10% rise there. I forget to include costs for front sill repairs. We’re just at the tip of the iceberg there; early Mk1s are needing repairs there, so a bit hard to generalise the costs there. Americans are seeing rotting passenger floorpans. And I am seeing more tail of boot floor welding. £2k is a fair estimate for the next 5 years worth of welding. You’re kidding yourself if you think you can get away with £400 of bodywork on a 30-35 year old car.
I payed £450 for a Lincoln 210 MIG welder, s/h.
Now that’s what you call an investment.