E10 New Fuel Megathread [Consolidated for all E10 discussion]

Technical Area Engine, Transmission, Exhaust etc
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In the interests of harmony I’ll admit to being a bit sceptical, mischievous even, about complaints of problems with E10 (which I still can’t find even small legions of).

It’s actually quite difficult to say how much ethanol was in the E5 one was using previously or in the E10 one buys this week. It’s been fairly well publicised that some E5 doesn’t contain any ethanol at all.

E10 is not petrol with 10% ethanol. It is, or will be, petrol with not less than 5.5% ethanol and not more than 10%. It will be permitted to sell premium fuel with less than the minimum amount of ethanol up to 1 November under the amended regulations, presumably to allow a transition.

Exactly how much it contains will undoubtedly vary. Ethanol has recently been more expensive than petrol AFAIK, so it seems unlikely that all suppliers will rush to 10% ethanol unless the oil price rises further.

September is also the month when the UK starts switching from summer to winter petrol. Winter petrol has a higher vapour pressure, but around 1.5% less energy content than the slightly heavier summer petrol. 1.5% is about the same as the reduction in energy content you might get from substituting 5% of the petrol with ethanol. Does anyone notice the power reduction every September?

It just happens that adding ethanol increases the vapour pressure anyway, but so does butane and butane is cheaper.

So just how much ethanol is in your E10 is anybody’s guess within the range 5.5%-10% (after 1 November - until then it could still be less).

I’m only surmising but I think it’s unlikely that there is very much premium on sale now with 10% ethanol content.

I have no reason to doubt Jeff’s observation of his car’s performance but there’s no proof that it is to do with ethanol. There’s no formula for petrol, and its make-up varies all the time, and we don’t/can’t know for certain how much ethanol was in it.

Explanatory memorandum re the amended regulations

For myself, I’ll continue to use E5 (0%-5% ethanol) 97+ RON (V-Power/Ultimate/Supreme etc.). The ND has a DI engine and the more cleaning additives it gets, the better is my hope.

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223

Interesting (I am a bit OCD about recording petrol consumption).

I always assumed poorer winter fuel consumption was because of longer warm-up time and using the HRW, blower and lights more.

Here’s a chart for 205,000 miles of fuel fills in my old 1.4SE Astra LS showing how mpg per tankful varies through the year, and latterly with a different type of use.
400 miles a week at mostly 70+ around the M25 to begin with, then working from home 50% 2003-2005, retired in June 2005.

Mileage_Astra
Mileage_Astra1754×1240 141 KB

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224

That is seriously impressive Richard! Nothing anecdotal about that. I think you’re probably right about the principal causes though - there looks to be more than 1.5% difference in economy there.

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225

Agreed.

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226

A French listing:

image

Main thoughts are; what the hell Mazda were you doing?

An old Alfa, regularly spilling fuel from its Dellortos, is better set up than a Mazda it seems. And it seems Mazda was the last Japanese maker to come into line, despite not being the smallest maker.

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227

I’ve just seen that the unleaded pumps in Sainsbury’s Derby now have E10 stickers. I was given to understand that introduction is not until September?

A while ago before E10 was mentioned, I was told by Shell that there is no ethanol in their V-power. But now on their website they state that E5 is still available in the form of V-power.

Does anyone know for sure if V-power is free of ethanol, or indeed if there is any other manufacturer producing ethanol-free petrol?

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Shell just says that V-Power is likely to contain some ethanol, not more than 5%.

This is what Esso says currently on its website

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.

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How do I protect my mk1 engine from the effects of the E10 petrol. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Just put the ‘5 star’ fuel in and enjoy, it really is that easy.
Just search on here and or google and you will spend the rest of the month reading.
:heart:

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231

Presumably, to ensure compliance by 1st September these sales places are placarding the changeover early, so they don’t have to drain the existing tanks. What’s left in a tank labelled E10 now may actually still be mainly E5 but will get diluted by the next bulk delivery and subsequent ones.

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232

Yes. And all that is required to make E10 is a minimum of 5.5% ethanol and no more than 10%. If supplies aren’t in place, or if ethanol is more expensive than petrol (which it has been recently) there will be no rush to go straight to 10%.

Still, I think the failsafe answer for a car that might be damaged by E10 is not to use it. The cheapest widely available E5 will probably be Tesco Momentum.

233

Yes, I think so. I took my car out for a spin today and the Sainsbury’s at Dronfield have changed the placards on the unleaded pump to E10. I had to put a few litres in because there was no alternative. No problems, the car runs very well on it.

I often used to fill with “super” or whatever they call it these days. Shame the oil companies seem to be profiteering over this……the price differential has greatly increased since the lockdown.

234

No doubt they are but I bet the forecourt owners are doing it too. Petrol stations compete on the headline petrol and diesel prices. When the standard uplift was about 10p, the Shell station on the A429 near Shipston on Stour was charging 6p extra for V-Power, which I took to be more of a guide to the underlying cost difference. Now 14p isn’t unusual.

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I wouldn’t imagine that oil companies or fuel forecourts would even think of profiteering. They are like car dealerships in that they put you and your welfare at the forefront of their mission objectives. Profit is way down on their list.

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Went to fill up at Sainsburys last night and they had E10 and E5. There was a printed note above the E10 saying to go to the gov website to see if you car is compatible, etc. I have a ND but still put the E5 in which was 8p per litre more. With E10 becoming the new standard are the stations now taking the pee? Wouldn’t the E5 a few months ago have been the standard price i.e. what the E10 is costing now?

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Is the E5 not their premium, higher octane fuel, rather than old stock 95 E5???

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238

Not sure. I did note is said 97 RON. does that qualify as super unleaded? I always thought 99+ RON was classed a super. Certainly an opportunity in the confusion to manipulate the price.

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Now I’m confused too. Not too worried about my NA…(seems indestructable!) and would likely go ok on beef dripping…but the 2002 Sport is another matter. I’ve been popping 99RON in over Covid…it’s only had circa 4 fills in 18 months though.

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Yes, it’s super. Supers which are 99 RON are; Tesco Momentum; Shell V Power and Esso Synergy Supreme + In many parts of the country, the ESSO one has zero ethanol too. I’ve used that in my ND for over 2 years (it used to be RON 97 actually, until they changed it to 99 last October). I used V power or Momentum for the year before that.
ALL the other supers are RON 97: Sainbury’s; BP; Texaco etc etc

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241

@NDer, cheers for that, seems to make sense. So basically for the likes of Sainsburys, et al they were charging super prices for something that was only 2 RON higher than normal?