That is very true, but there are a good many youngsters who do care, and if I’m honest, looking back I’m sure that I and most of my generation were a pretty hedonistic lot also, and my concerns for the environment and other issues only kicked-in in my thirties. So it would seem that some of us are aware and concerned about things from the start, or become so at various stages throughout our lives and some can’t be bothered at all, ever! Human beings, what a mixed bunch we are!
Have I missed something?
Much as I love the ICE it is possible to for a usable exiting electric sports car. A wealthy friend of mine was an early adopter of tesla’s technology and had a Roadster based on the lotus elise. Phenomenal acceleration and handling and he used it to regularly drive from Nottingham to london and back aswell as the odd track day resulting in a £50k rebuild after an accident… I think it’s all going to come down to handling with these cars as the method of propulsion is going to be indistinguishable between makes. He eventually sold it on and now has a model s and also has a model 3 on order.
Long long time before there’s no petrol or diesels on the road.
We don’t have the infrastructure - & I’m talking national grid not charging points for all that electricity.
Where do the gov get their tax money from, if no petrol or diesel?
Vast areas of Scotland have very sparse populations - where do they & tourists get a charge from? Many places rely on diesel/oil generators for electricity.
A far far better option would be electricity supplied by a hydrogen cell in the car - much easier to fill up and transport hydrogen to filling stations than build effectively a whole new national grid for charging cars, and the waste from burning hydrogen & oxygen = water.
I see that as the option that will eventually win - it’s common sense really!
But it’s going to be a lot lot longer than the date the gov has given for it!
Hydrogen is a great option but for one BIG problem - safety. Until someone comes up with an affordable system with an accident proof hydrogen storage tank for vehicles with a fail/safe valve on the connections it’s not really viable. A split tank would explode like a bomb or propel the vehicle like and errant missile! Which is probably why, despite its known advantages, it has never been a serious option.
Same could be said for petrol !
There are filling stations for hydrogen cells already & vehicles that (obviously) use that as a fuel source.
Filling stations http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/m25-hydrogen-brings-britain-closer-zero-carbon-motoring-first/ & https://www.zap-map.com/four-new-hydrogen-refuelling-stations-confirmed/
Info on fuel cells http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/144957/what-are-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars
Your right Mike - to a point.
First - However unlike petrol, hydrogen has to be stored under very, very high pressure, about 700 times higher than the average tyre pressure, so the storage container needs to be much, much stronger than a petrol tank. As I said if the tank ruptured the escaping pressurised gas could ignite and the tank explode, or it could act as a jet and propel the car.
Second - I did say affordable.
Thirdly - Hydrogen is not readily available as a “free” gas, it has to be extracted from other agents, and the most obvious of those are - you guessed it - oil and water!
So really the most efficient way, both in cost and use of resource, lies not in the supply of small units - vehicles, but in large units - power stations, to supply electricity to the grid, for among other things - electric cars!!??
The hydrogen tank issue where solved a long time go, there have been self sealing tanks for quiet sometime that have been crash tested to the ninth degree. The valve safe is the safe it it can bebut hydrogen does not have to be stored in gas or liquid honda have been very successfully with pellets
Hydrogen filling station have been used in Iceland for several years and the population have been driving hydrogen powered vehicles. The problem is until manufactures and governments get together no will moved forward there are very few hydrogen filling station 2 in London one in Edinburgh until some pays for the infrastructure manufacture will not committ. GM Toyota Honda kia hyundia call have hydrogen powered vehicle that they are happy to scale up but until some starts to put hydrogen station around the nation why should they take the risk.
Currently we cannot meet the electric need for the nation in the next 6 years to meet the battery powered vehicle needs we are going to need 20 nuclear power station in the next 5 years more wind farms etc. The environment agency has but this out but you all miseed the small print hybrid diesel and petrol vehicles will still be sold in 2040 there’s not a total ban on diesel and petrol because the government know they could not meet the needs of the Nation this way.
Lorries will become hybrid, people, e are still going to want to tow caravans etc so it’s a long way off to a total ban of diesels and petrol new cars…
People should start to think about producing there own electrical power through home wind and solar power.
Now has for not hearing electric cars this is an issue for people with sight problems as for the rest of you open and use your eyes more people do not look out for cars now! Sorry but people with sight have no excuse. Car horns may have to been used more battery car are not silent there motors wine and the tires make noise so stop look listen.
The Doom and Gloom post. (you’ve been warned!)
H’mmm using an A/C motor is logical, making it three phase more so, an A/C motor is more efficient that a DC and also more controllable - BUT - This gets technical, so RichardFX will understand - very few others will!
I’ve used A/C Invertors for years, part of my past job, and there are strict regulations applicable to how they are used. Biggest problem is radio interference, so all wiring between controller and motor must be done in shielded cable. All Shields must be grounded, so how do you ground a vehicle which runs on rubber tyres?
There is of course the old (travel sickness) solution, use an earth strap between car body and road (debatable if it ever really accomplished anything).
On a D/C powered vehicle the A/C invertor becomes a Converter, changing D/C to apparent A/C, with the consequent waveform from the controller becoming a simulated waveform by being modulated (the same thing happens with an invertor - it’s not an A/C output from the Invertor, it’s a modulated D/C output) With A/C supply the waveform is a pure S (Imagine that turned 90 degrees) but with modulated D/C the waveform looks like any radio waveform - e.g. jagged. It’s that impurity that affects adjacent radio reception. I have seen and heard the effect where shielded cable was NOT used, it totally wipes out any sound, and replaces it with hash.
Now imagine dozens of electric cars driving past your house while you are trying to listen to the radio - good luck on that. Will it effect your TV reception? Frankly I don’t know, Richard may like to comment on that aspect. I do know - from the past - that noisy ignition did affect VHF channels, which some of you may also recall. As for car radios, forget it.
Then there’s the aspect of batteries - no-one has yet made a lifetime battery, so turnover will be enormous.
Can battery manufacturers cope? And what about disposal of old batteries? While modern technology means we now see exotic (and expensive) batteries rolling off production lines, someone has to pay for them at some point, with no doubt prices increasing as newer models are created. Like computers, TV’s etc, yes- volume increases so prices drop, But there’s till the cost of development to pay for, so it may take years before you actually see any reduction. If and when we see carbon fibre replacing steel, then scrapyards will either go to the wall, or become battery recycling centers, though long term the recycled output will become worthless as technology advances. What price a good old lead acid wet cell be worth then? - Or even now.
If all private cars disappear, replaced by ‘Hail a Driver-less car’ imagine what the fare will be, considering they will be electric, and need new batteries eventually. Electronics have proved much more reliable than old valve technology, but controllers may still fail, at present they are made for static application, not mobile. While speed bumps may disappear, road holes will not. No-one can keep up with it now, so what happens in twenty years time? Road tax will be paid by driver-less companies, but you will pay for the cost along with other costs for every mile you travel.
Add AI to the equation - what state of unemployment will some people have, to be able afford a driver-less car to go to to the shop, supermarket, gold course, holiday - whatever? Will they revert to horsepower literally? Garages converted to stables? Hay rises to a premium - - - -. Good luck if you are under forty.
Your world, and welcome to it. (Smile - you are on candid camera - - - )
I don’t mind the sound of a electric MX5 as long as it has the handling attributes of MX5’s of yesteryear. Automatic cars are in greater and greater demand now and electrically-powered engines fall neatly there. Furthermore, plenty of torque in something with 50:50 balance and rear-wheel drive would be a hoot! I saw a video not too long ago on YouTube about a concept Renaultsport Zoe. It was circa 460bhp and does 0-62 in <4 seconds. It only does 180 miles per charge but, with so many people using a '5 as a non-daily, what would the issue be?
The only issues I can see would be keeping up with demand for electricity with all cars being scrapped (eventually) in favour of plug-in vehicles. I’d imagine there would be a physical constraint to have enough power-stations, cabling, outlets etc. which would each have their own associated carbon footprint. Furthermore, the benefits of electric vehicles would have to be vastly improved, or manufacturing would have to be vastly improved, to offset the carbon footprint made with each car made (think Prius which has to be shipped country-to-country or have parts shipped to build).
I welcome our robot overlords, personally! 
Gerry, the AC or DC motor debate is not really a problem, and shielding against interference only needs to be local to the source. Prius etc work OK already, so technology is not a worry, it will only improve. Think of the high power used by the Tube trains etc with old technology both AC and DC and not much interference despite the massive flashes from the third rail contact.
If the radio works in the car, then radios further away will be fine. DAB and FM between them bridge the TV band so interference harmonics affecting TV will probably also be absent.
Grounding a car is not much of an issue as modern tyres have enough carbon loading to be conductive to esd type voltages. The only time people are zapped is when they are wearing super insulating soles on their shoes, eg polypropylene soled trainers like decades ago on my ancient Dunlop Green Flash; the sole is the storage dielectric.
More to the point is what kind of battery technology might be feasible for the number of vehicles possible. Is there enough lithium in the world? Is there, or will there ever be, enough electricity generating capacity?
Also remember how litigious the US is; it is unlikely any of the major car manufacturers is going to risk letting loose an unsafe autonomous vehicle on the public.
I still like the idea of alcohol fuel made in the local sewage plant from household waste etc (instead of going to landfill) and piped to the local garage’s storage tanks. Modern cars can probably be chipped for 100% alcohol, maybe different plugs and some pipes, and maybe chuck the cat. Cheaper and much less environmentally harmful than nuclear, but against vested interests who want to see continual turnover of new product at ever higher prices (profits, taxes).
Interesting debate, this one.
I’m sure the oil companies will have something to say about the massed take-up of fully-electric, or even Hybrid cars by the public. Although if they were smart, one would assume that with the depleting oil resources around the world, and the inevitable and eventual disappearance of their basic raw material, they would be investing and experimenting with the new electric propulsion technology themselves - to protect their businesses in the future.
With F1 having gone down the Hybrid route a few years ago, it wouldn’t surprise me if this technology became more widespread in ordinary motoring in the near future. I have already noticed a growing number of TV adverts for Hybrid cars recently, and indeed they are slowly moving away from the butt ugly-looking Toyota Prius.
The big stumbling block, to my mind, still seems to be battery technology though. - batteries still need to be made much lighter, smaller, and with greater capacity, so as not to hinder automotive design. After all, where the hell would you put conventional batteries into a car the size of an MX-5 ? The boot is small enough already !
In the 1990s to 2000 I spent a short time working this two major oil companies who we diversifying into alternative fuel product.
BP and Shell have produced several synthetic fuels that could easily replace petrol and diesel and not produce the nasty emissions with little to no adjustment to your cars. They have been stocks of this fuel which they can produce at about the same cost point of petrol and diesel, these biofuels will allow the ICE to continue well into the future, also the new hydrogen fuels cells are very good.
I personally prefer the hydrogen system both as a fuel cell and as a direct burn product.
The ICE is far from over the fuel companies are ready to make the change and still make huge some sort of money from use. Do not be shocked to hear about a new wonder fuel to replace petrol and diesel very soon,
Wow, that would be great - means I won’t have to scrap my 5 after all.
Will look forward to the news Mr. Jackie.
Many of these biofuels are not compatible with older rubbers and seals. On a Mk1, if the parts are available, that might be uneconomical. Bioethanol still generates emissions, but at a lower level. The argument is that the CO2 produced from bioethanol is cancelled out due to photosynthesis. But this is perpetual motion stuff, as it assumes that the plants can be planted, maintained and harvested without any of the mechanical or chemical inputs generated for the last 10,000 years. And people are generally resistant to the entire countryside being turned over to a xenogenic mono-crop. Algae are also a potential source, but as the late John Martin pointed out, iron is a great limiter to productivity in the seas
Saz9961. You are spot on with this point and that’s been one of the areas they have been looking at. But if you not when people are changing seals on the engine they are using new type of compound rubbers anD silicone.
The might be a need for some minor modification. Biofuel is old hat the ethanol was being use in the model T when petrol was expensive it’s a good fuel but the synthetic fuels are good. But it will take government action to force the oil companies to roll out these products. If there one sure fire thing the oil giants want to remain wealthy and they will keep our engines running.
It an exciting time a head with new and old tech fighting it out for the future.
That’s why they are using waist rather than crops
You are a little out datedated in you fuel research we use bio digester
Don’t scrap it, have it converted!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs
Personally, the thing I love about electric cars is the performance - I think they are definitely the future for “normal” driving and can definitely be “fun”
In my view the environmental impact of having an MX-5 in the garage and doing 3000 miles per year is nothing significant, its the daily drivers that are eating earth in my view.
So people can drive their electric cars all week and then play with their ICE cars on the weekend, just like people keep steam engines and other ancient technology for fun!
Chunks
That’s a valid suggestion Chunks. I wonder if we’ll be allowed to run our ICE machines simply for pleasure - perhaps having mileages monitored so that we can’t do anything else - Big Brother is watching you !
Lets hope the EU Hoover syndrome doesn’t kick in with cars, a 2kw engine could be FUN !
Anyway 23years to build 3 more nuclear power station with another one for the extra homes being built to supply all our electrical needs ?!?!?! It just ain’t gonna happen!
An electric MX5 performing a little like a Tesla, yep I’d have one.
Happy Days