Quite so; my experience has been that the
vast majority of scrapyard owners are not honest businessmen like Andy
Stott, and some frankly operate at the margins of legality. Rear
springs do crack with age; anywhere from 10 years plus (might be even
quicker given the relatively poor degree of rustproofing later cars
have). If you can see the car they are from, you might be on to
soemthing, otherwise they might come from a crashed car. Scrapyard rate
for used suspension assemblies seems to be around £50-60 a corner, so
there’s not that much of a saving.
Used brake parts are even worse; to an extent that many of the big yards will not now sell used calipers.
No need to be so defensive, and no one has suggested you lie. Read my post carefully; the final ride height will primarily depend on the particular suspension package the donor car had, but also the age. In Japan, most 1.8 Mk2 Roadsters were RS-Packages (6-speeders), which used a suspension package found on the Icon and 10AE in the UK. Later on, this Sport suspension had a few different forms; earlier ones used easily identifiable Bilstein shocks, others used a retuned Showa shock. Lots of Roadsters out of Japan have aftermarket springs, or cut-down factory springs as well.
The specials you refer to are the 40 refreshed NA6CEs they built, via a sub contractor a few years back; the base version used effectively the Sport set-up, and the upgrade used an adjustible Mazdaspeed Mk2 setup.
The yellow car is a base refreshed car, using stock Mk2 shocks (Bilstein package), springs and tops. It rides a bit high, even compared to the 96+ cars, which are jokingly referred to as having a 4x4 ride height. Note, Mazda supplied Mazdaspeed with brand new off the shelf parts, not used or refurbished parts.
A US owner having fitted a NB setup (he doesn’t say which package):
Owners report an average 14.5-15" wheel centre to arch lip measurement.
Another owner, having fitted Billies off a MSM Miata (Bilsteins) combined with H&R springs and stock tops:
If it were me, if I HAD to fit used shocks, and I had found a decent set, I would bin the springs, and top bushing parts, and get new rubber parts from Mazda (only £15 per corner), and Tein springs, which are an economical £120ish a set, with a nice medium ratings, and a 68-70% rear spring bias (stock Mazda are 60% rear spring bias, ropey springs like Spax end up 50-50, which is what you really want for fast lap work). Having springs 68% the rating of the fronts makes the car a little more oversteery. This is the approach Mazda took with the S-Special cars; boosting the rear springs a little, which also fattening the front ARB. S-Specs are ride a little lower than stock, so consequently have different trackrod ends to correct the steering geometry.
Stock shocks will start to show a pronounced decrease in performance at about 100k kms. Factory Bilsteins will go a bit longer; Bilstein reckon as long as the shock isn’t damaged, you should still be at 90% of original spec at 200k kms. Sadly, we have heard of far too many factory Bilsteins popping a seal at much younfger ages. My own theory is that this is because the integral dust gaiter is shredded, allowing dirt/grint to contaminate the seal. The stock gaiters will go for about 40k miles then start to fall apart.
that was all a bit complicated for me to understand as english.
I accept that you can rely on used parts as long as you check they are ok. Even if its only £20 a saving on a new piece of suspension its a massive saving per corner for people like myself who don’t have money to throw about.
Why should I pay new prices for shockers when I can rely on people like andy and wayne to advise me. If it don’t work you don’t put it on
Seemed perfectly clear to me, but it wasn’t directed at you.
Its up to the OP as to what they want to spend. I’m not going to recommend scrapyard safety-related parts. Over the years, I’ve been there, and found it to be a false economy; I don’t have money to throw about either (who does?). While you might be able to perform certain tests on a used shock absorber (though often faults will only show once the part is installed, so you end up paying double on labour @£45 per hour), you cannot do this on springs. Springs can fracture catastrophically without warning. At the very least, I would demand that used springs should be completely rust free.
From what you have described, there sounds to be nothing wrong with your present suspension, so why waste money swapping it? The factory Bilsteins aren’t good enough for the track enthusiast; unlike regular aftermarket Billies, these have a near stock rebound rate, but very high compression rate (about 3x stock). Proper motorsport shocks will also have a decent rebound rate. Really, the ride on a stock S-Special (S-Limited) setup is fine.
Wow, threaded shaft of a factory Bilstein snapped clean off:
I have no issue with Mr Stott. I have purchased a few used items from him (mostly trim and other non-mechanical parts) and have been pleasantly suprised at the condition of the parts that he has sent me (considering the parts in question are getting on for 15 years old). Whilst I can fully appreciate that a trip to Southampton to check out a relatively expensive and rare slushbox would be worthwhile, doing the same for a set of second-hand dampers wouldn’t (not for me anyway).
Unfortunately, MX-5 HQ as far as the UK is concerned is located on the South Coast which doesn’t make things easy for us guys up here in the Grim North. It would be great if someone could establish an “AutoLink North” franchise a little closer to Leeds/Manchester. One day, maybe …
Would be interested in knowing the ride height measurements after such a conversion, if you get the chance. Mine is 335F/350R and doesn’t give the impression of being lowered. I would be reluctant to go much higher than this, if at all possible.
Now that’s a shame. Perhaps I’m being foolish but I don’t have a problem with used calipers. At the end of the day I am only after a used casting with a serviceable cylinder bore and clean threaded ports for the hydraulic fittings. A seal kit and maybe a new piston should make a very serviceable caliper for an additional £30. Red or gold lacquer would not be required.
I am now lost??What is your point,do you want me to post pic’s of broken springs through wear and tear or leaking dampers,or the rear lower wish bones i have had to cut off this weekend because they were so far gone i had no option but to cut everthing off???(which by the way i used all second hand parts for this owner which he supplied)a shed load of calipers that are seized up,gearbox’s,the list goes on??can we just agree that it is down to the owner of the car and there budget,you have your piont of veiw, but it does seem that always have to have the last word,not everyones point of veiw is wrong because you do not agree with it,and i have to help the owners that come to me for work done and i have to work to the individuals requirements and offer advise even if i would prefer to use new parts it’s not my choice but the car has to be back on the road right and safe,and thats why the owners trust me with there pride and joys becouse i will treat it as if it was my own.
your knowledge of all things mx/roadster is second to none and i wish i personally could hold all that info in my head,but i only keep what i need,but i do feel that you do but people down imho ,and i do take things personall???thats me,and i will not change.
Back on topic …if you want a comfier softer ride on your Mk 1 then the Mk 2 mazda mx/roadster standered dampers will fit but if you are getting them second hand then get them from a reputable company like autolink so if you hit any problems you can just phone them up with some kind of guarantee,but make sure you do not purchase the sports dampers because they will turn your car into a 4X4???
Now i hope this now helps fellow owners at some point who have there own opinion and choice.
I don’t think wayne charges £45 an hour for replacing a shocker. After all who would be mad enough to put a spring on like that one on the picture you show.
all parts I purchase are checked and usually bought from Andy or Wayne or friends i know on nutz. these are people I trust completely.
And by the way I am not wasting money changing my suspension - what I get for my billies will cover all or most of the cost of the standard shocks I have put on. I have had the billies on for two years. I want low ride with comfort and thats my personal choice.
My daughter wants a comfy ride too and I would rather have a comfy ride than a bumpy one and let my car shake to bits. the billies are good for motorway driving but they can’t handle country roads with potholes.
Not at all. The Bilstein failure was a new one to me; posted it as an example that when you check a used shock, you don’t merely check for leaks, lower bush or damage to the shock body, but also to check the threaded portion of the shock, which can only be examined if you dissemble the entire assembly. Check as well how the breaker has taken the part of the car. Some will be brutal, and use torches to rip it off. Dpends how familiar they are with the car. Autolinkuk is familiar with the cars.
Ultimately, its down to the MOT tester I suppose.
If you have a personal issue with me, take it offline and PM me.
Yeah, I’d go with that, but its the sports setup that will lower the car more (Mazda used the NRA NB6 setup on their special editions, which was effectively the Mk2.5 Sport parts). I think there is a slight spec difference in the springs.
As the guy that started this thread, perhaps I can end it too? I’d hate for this to go too far off-topic and/or end up getting personal.
Thanks to everyone for their ideas and suggestions, they have truly been a great help, with a wide variety of solutions suggested here.
Clearly some people have genuine concerns about the merits of using used parts for safety-critical items and perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on this? At the end of the day, you pay your money and you make your choice, but no one wants to see a fellow MX5 owner coming to harm or indeed spend money unnecessarily.
Wayne, if you could post back with the ride height measurements for the Mk2 conversion (or PM me if you prefer) then that would be grand. I think the convention is to measure vertically from the dead centre of the wheel to the edge of the wheel arch (this is how I measured it, anyway).
the measurments for the front are 13 1/4 inchs from wheel centre to the wing wheel arch on my Mk 1 the back i can not give a correct measurement for you because i have a tow bar fitted so mine will be sitting a lot lower than normal anyway so i have measured the one that is still waiting for collection from it’s owner and at the rear i get 14 inchs dead but she as come straight off axle stands and as yet not been on the road yet to settle everything in.
I have taken some pic’s of my car and the one that went on sat,so i’ll try and post them for you so you have something to veiw.
Oh by the way they are all on 14 inch boots if that makes any difference???
Been studying your posts on harsh ride. I’ve just bought a '92 Mk1 1.6 black & tan SE. (105,000 miles) and am an old pertrol head, but my first MX5 & you sound knowledgable. I have what I suspect to be a failing front shock & a wheel bearing type noise but only at 40 odd MPH not below so suspect the ballance problem is starting the noise. Koni adjustables, lowered springs. No leaks & feels fine if one stands next to car & lift/push up/down rapidly. No bounce if just old fashioned hand push down shock test. At 60 to 70 odd MPH (not been faster as only had for a few days) get what thought was a wheel ballance shudder on steering not gear lever, not bad but quite noticable. Had front ballanced & no change. The shudder apears to be bump related. Whole car shuddes over small/minor bumps (on m25) so dont think it is back hitting rubbers/bottoming as covered in posts.Took to a garage who advised that front left moved about 5 to 8 mm up/down rather easily. On placing a tyre lever under front right (car lifted off wheels) no movement unless press hard. On front left shock moves this 5 to 8 mm fairly easily, then more resistance felt. Checked shock & suspension mountings top & bottom & no movement.
Any ideas. Overstreched financially on purchase so trying to find an answer myself. Any pointeres please.
Thanks. Just joined & not sure how to pick up a reply. May I please ask you to reply to charleschiappini@gmail.com. Any contribution MOST welcome please.
Are you running on the standard rims and 205 tyres because these will not help,mazda fitted over size tyres to the rims so 195 or 185’s would be better plus the standard rims for the SE are heavy,plus remember you also have standard dampers on her and they are getting old now,have you still got the bracing underneath front and rear to stop rattle and body shack over bumps(the m25 must be crap???)a good strut brace and rear deck brace will also help,is your tracking ok???with out seeing or driving the car itself i can only offer options,but you do need to start somewhere,can you borrow a set of standard 14" wheels first and see what happens and how she feels???
I had my G Reg MK1 fitted out with a set of “used” MK2 shocks last week with Wayne at One Stop MX5 Roadsters in Manchester, and I have to say I do not know what all the fuss is about. They are brilliant, I now have a car that worthy of using our british roads. Wayne asked me what kind of driving I do, and recommended the MK2 shocks, this was great advice, thanks Wayne. The car is a joy to use now, especially as I use the car every day. The shocks were purchased from Autolink and arrived next day and were in exceptional condition, I appreciate some people saying you are taking risks buying used units, but you are also at risk fitting expensive shocks that do NOT do the job ( ie, usually too firm for road use ). The car looks great too, if it is different from the std ride height then damned if I can tell, or anyone else for that matter, and I sure ain’t going to measure it !!
As someone that has spent much time on race tracks I can honestly say to most people that road use and track use are 2 totally different things, and are not to be confused. Of course everyone is free to make their own choice, but my advice is know what you want your car to do in the first place !!
So thanks to Wayne once more for the great advice.
“Expensive” shocks are usually adjustible for compression and rebound, typically from between somewhere softer than stock (90% etc) through to very firm. There are actually very few products for the MX5 that are exclusively track orientated. Most of the setups that come to mind are designed for road cars, so its wrong to characterise them as being unsafe for UK roads. Those truely specialised setups are generally not available through public outlets.
Setups such as Koni Sport, AGX-Eibach, Puredrive, are certainly not track-biased. They perform well on the track, as well as on the road.
If you can procure such parts through trusted sources, so be it, but be very wary about buying used parts from unknown sources, such as on ebay. Of course, there has been criticism of cheap new shocks, such as the unbelievably cheap OBX setup, but surprisingly, there haven’t really been any problems with them.
