Harsh ride - Mk1 MazdaSpeed

Technical Area Steering & Suspension
2

The novelty of the “firm” ride on my car is starting to wear off. Suspect it may have got worse since the cold weather set in.

I don’t have any real experience of other Mk1s in order to make a valid comparison (apart from a cautious 10-minute test drive in a Bilstein-equipped S-Special) so what I would be interested to know is are the MazdaSpeed springs and dampers (green, 4-way adjustable) with 195/50R15 tyres a notoriously harsh combination on Mk1 models? Is it likely that they are past their best and that a fresh set of dampers (and springs) would restore a modicum of comfort?

I have no leaning towards track-day antics and would prefer not to spend a fortune on replacement suspension components. Would either the Koni SRT.T or KYB “Sports Handling Kit” from MX5 Parts be worthy replacements for the MazdaSpeed stuff fitted at the moment?

 

3

Auction sites often have good standard shocks and springs.

4

The Mazdaspeed kit you have actually consists of Eibach springs and KYB shocks; very similar to a KYB AGX/Eibach spring combination. This kit is not “notoriously” harsh.

Setting 1 on the shocks is about the same as a standard shock absorber.

You will probably still find it “harsh”, and thats really due to the springs. If you want lowering, you will generally have to accept a stiffer spring; Eibachs are around 30% stiiffer than stock (as is the case of virtually any -30mm lowering spring). The Mazdaspeed Eibachs differ a little from the other Eibach springs in having a slightly stiffer rear spring. Replacing the springs with a standard spring, accepting a jacked up appearance, and you will probably have a softer ride.

Another factor; what people sometimes think as “harsh” is actually the rear bumpstops bottoming out on back roads, giving a jittery ride. Many an owner has spent large amounts of money replacing shocks, but keeping lowering springs, only to find there is no change. This is just a feature if you retain standard length shocks, standard top mounts and standard bumpstops.

My guess is, unless your shocks are leaking all over the place, fitting the Koni or KYB kit will see no real improvement.

If you want a soft ride, revert to OE spec shocks, springs and new bumpstops. If you want a decent ride AND go cart handling, then the kits from Performance5 are hard to beat; very stiff springs, with carefully matched shocks achieve an unexpectedly smooth ride. But its going to cost you.

If you can spanner yourself, cheapest option for you is to change the springs for standard spec; stick with original Mazda, as pattern springs either tend to sag, or are specced too long. The “Mazdapeed” shocks aren’t really any different to the AGXs (except in some small details), so can take a standard spring. renew the bumpstops while you are at it.

If you are paying someone to take your suspension on and off, now is not the time to penny pinch, given that the labour on fitting shocks and springs is the same as fitting just springs (or just shocks); ie. about 4-5 hours.

5

Many thanks SAZ. Many of your comments ring true, crashing from the rear end seems to to be the main problem.The roads in our part of the world are in a poor state of repair but the car is a joy on smooth roads. Is it possible that I am confusing the torsional limitations of a 16-year old/tired open-top bodyshell with “bad” suspension?

Dampers are set to “2” all round and do not appear to be leaking. Suspension movement feels to be adequately “damped”. The adjusters certainly seemed to work when I changed from “1” to “2”. I am reluctant to go any higher since I am a private patient at my dentist and his rates are rather high …

My car does not appear to be that low to me. Is there a FAQ somewhere that will tell me the normal wheel centre to wheel arch measurements so that I can check the ride height?

6

Spec is: -
Rear    346mm - 395mm.
Front    328mm - 377mm,
The difference rear-front should be between 10 and 30mm.
Aim at 325/340


As you may well be aware, there is a great debate on what color God’s Miata is. What color is God’s Miata?
Eric Knight, Indianapolis/IN
I thought everybody knew. It’s Mariner Blue. It matches her eyes.
bwob
—

7

Cheers Geoff and congratulations on your imminent 4000th post!

8

Why thank you kind sir [done in best Aust. accent…mate]Wink—

9

 Hi niggle

What about standard springs and dampers of a Mk 2??? this is what i have done on my Mk 1 and the drive is a hell of a lot smoother and i do not feel the pot holes as hard.and the comfort side is ten times better.

regards 

10

 If fitting Mk2 shocks, dampers, you will also need to factor in new top mounts. You also need to choose the right spec carefully; some Mk2.5 setups can give a very high 4x4 appearance. When Mazda refreshed a handful of Mk1s for resale in Japan, they fitted them with effectively Mk2.5 Sport setups.

If using new parts (and used suspension parts are never really a good idea): allow around £570-600 for parts. Some used parts are ok, but you need to check the parts very carefully for damage.

11

Hi Wayne. Thanks for this. Yes, this is something that I have thought about occasionally but have also had some resevervations about for pretty much the same reasons that SAZ has has explained. I guess the “off-road” look could be remedied by a set of Mk2 lowering springs but I would be worried that this would effectively put me back to square one due to the stiffer springs.

At the end of the day I guess it just boils down to whether or not I am prepared to throw £600 at a £1,500 car to improve the ride comfort.

12

 Hi niggle

i changed the whole units including top mounts,but never had any problems with the ride height, if anything it sits the same as it did with the Mk 1 dampers only just now it’s a lot softer ,maybe a was just lucky saz,the units came from andrew at autolink second hand as testers and it worked for me,if you want any pic’s,let me know if i can remember how to do it,i’m not saying go this route it’s was just another option and cheaper,if i used my car on track that would be a different story,but she is a road car so i want to keep my botty bump free,if you know what i mean.

Kind regards

13

Cheers Wayne. That’s food for thought. Would be interested to know your ride height measurements, next time you are out and about with the tape measure, to see how much they differ from what I have at the moment.

14

Hello Mr Niggle.

Just a thought … and an offer. I’m only down the road from you, in Sunny Huddersfield. If you wanted to give my rather tatty '90 Eunos a quick blast for added comparison, you’d be very welcome … from what I can tell, it’s totally standard, and probably not that recent. It’s certainly not harsh … a little wallowy for my liking. I’m due to have a full alignment check done in the next week or so, so I’ll probably learn a little more about it then.

If you do decide to shell out on a new set of shocks and springs, I might be interested in giving you some pound notes for your existing kit … my Eunos is destined for use only ever on trackdays, so a harsh/lowered ride is no hardship at all.

If I can help - with either aspect - please shout!

Cheers! Carlos

15

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for the offer. I’d certainly appreciate a trip on familiar (crap) roads in a “standard car” for comparison. Might be worth waiting till the roads have dried out a little, then you can evaluate body roll around roundabouts on my setup without worrying about swapping ends!

I’m at Oakes (near the Merry England coffee shop). PM sent with contact details.

Regards, Niggle.

 

16

 

 

If it helps, I run KYB AGX with spax springs which will be similar to yours in many ways, I have 320mm front and rear and suffer the same problems…and the same roads!

My wife has arthritis and hates the ride but once we are on a decent bit of tarmac, suddenly it all makes sense!

17

Currently 340mm front and 355mm rear.

18

 I have just watched wayne fit four mk2 shocks to a G reg mk1 which had the same ride height as mine and when all four were put on the ride height was only slightly lower at the front.

These shock absorbers do not give a 4 x 4 ride height.  It looks exactly the same.  I am now thinking of replacing my billies with the mk2 set up if I can get a good set for a good price of someone and sell my billies for track users.

Used parts can be just as good as new parts, it all depends on the state of the car the part came off and as long as they are inspected properly I don’t see a problem with used suspension.

19

Therein lies the problem. Apart from any obvious fluid leaks or stripping the suspension units down and testing the dampers on a rig how can you tell that a damper is worn out? Not all worn out dampers are severely corroded or leak fluid. The opportunity to test drive the donor vehicle before the parts are removed is quite rare and inevitably we end up buying parts with no provenance from a salvage yard where the parts have been on the shelf long after the donor shell has been crushed.

Used suspension parts are seldom expensive, but I’d rather not buy them twice and spend two weekends fitting two sets of suspension.

 

 

20

 Hi Niggle

As i understand what you are saying all my parts come from and have always come from andrew at autolink which has and always has my ultimate trust for new and second hand parts so if a damper was found to be leaking or damaged in any way a new item will be sent without any question whatsoever,the only items i would personally use myself from a scrap yard would be interior trim and body panels only because of the unknow history of the donner car,but to be truthful it will not be long before this is only going to be our only option with the cars starting to get fewer and a lot gone for scrapage deals,there is also very few still left in japan now(i’m talking about the Mk 1’s)but still plenty of Mk 2’s which are becoming 10 year old now so there will be plenty of them arriving here soon,

i had a situation last year which i needed a 1600cc auto car box for a 1991 v.s import and found a gearbox locally for a good price on the shelf???but rather than buy one i could not trust i phoned andrew to which he had one still in a car ready for breaking so pushed him into putting some trade plates on her and floor it down the motorway making sure gear change was good and everthing worked as it should,in the end it cost me twice as much plus shipping but i new it was right for the chap who needed it fitting,and thats just one story of parts from autolink, it’s down to trust.

Now as for the Mk 2 damper conversion,i have done this loads of times and never once had a car that sits like a 4 x 4???i have done two this weekend and both are good and if anything seem to sit a little bit lower and rides the pot holes a lot easier and softer without losing any road holding so i think it is down to personal choice and your pocket at the end of the day,if i can remember how to post pic’s i have taken some from this weekends work to view to see that i do not lie,mazda would not of fitted some to a couple of specials if they did not think it would not work??would they saz 

kind regards