I’ve currently got a 2L Sel-Nav ('18) ND1. The version with the 160 hp. If in the future I was going to replace it with another ND, it would be a predicament.
Since the ‘latest’ EU emissions trash, the prices of the NDs across the board have become silly. With the now ‘base’ 2L ND2 (the Sport Tech) pushing 28K, and the GT+ version fetching north of 30K. I’m going by the new price, but I’d probably end up doing pre reg again. Even the base 1.5 now has a base price of 24K. And, of course, the Sel-Nav spec, which I’m happy with (I like the suspension set up and cloth seats), is no longer available in the 2L version.
The 2L ND2 now has the Bilsteins only. Whereas my Sel-Nav (2L ND1) has a suspension set up more in common with the 1.5 (non Blistein, but with "17 wheels, as opposed to ''16). I mentioned before that I had a quick go in an older ND1 2L Sport Nav once to test the brakes, but I wasn’t really concentrating on the Bilstein ride. Q: If you went from a 1.5 to 2L ND2, or visa versa, how did you find the ride difference?
Power. I drive the car spiritedly and my concern is that, compared to (even my ND1) 2L, the 1.5 will feel under powered. So would going from a 2L ND1 to a 1.5 be a culture shock when the right foot goes down? Of course that wouldn’t be an issue going ‘up’ to the 2l ND2. But the base 1.5 has some of the stuff I like on my current 2L Sel-Nav, namely the cloth seats and more compliant suspension. And of course, a base 1.5 to the GT 2L now has a price difference of about 7K (And I don’t like the silverish wheels on the current 1.5 Sport nor the current 2L ND2 Sport Tech), a price difference of which is quite a factor. Of course, remembering that the 1.5 also has no LSD, which together with the V5 'box, probably (touching wood for everyone) takes the gearbox going pop off the table. The 2L ND2 with the LSD could still be a mystery, gearbox wise, long term? (I mentioned the LSD, as on the US forum, the vast majority of 2L 'box failures have been on their ‘club’ version- which has a LSD, whereas their ‘Grand Touring’ version - a 2L without the LSD has suffered a much better fate)
[For completeness, of course even the 1.5 is now an ‘ND2’ too, but I’ve called it just the 1.5 as the power/torque changes with later and earlier 1.5s are negligible.]
So I’ve had ND1 1.5 Sport Nav then ND1 2.0 Sport Nav and now a ND2 1.5 SEL-NAV
The best thing/worst thing depending on your driving style is changing down to overtake on the motorway.
It’s a lovely car to drive and I don’t often miss the 160ps ND1 as this one feels spirited enough.
The ability for reach and rake on the ND2 is a massive improvement, but they still forgot the glovebox
What do I miss, contact less entry and the better key design. Being frank the ND2 keys were designed by a complete plonker, to be polite, who had no idea about ergonomics they are the worst keys I have ever seen with the tiniest buttons in the world!
How did you find the suspensions? Your 2L Sport Nav had the Bilstein shocks, whereas your 1.5s had/have the softer set up? Much difference in day-to-day driving?
The simple answer is that YOU must try both and decide what YOU want.
Personally I have had ND1 SEL and now ND2 30AE and much prefer the more compliant suspension of the ND1. The stiffer suspension is not horrendous but only YOU can decide.
The ND1 1.5 I tried and would definitely not have suited ME which is why I went for the 2.0. The ND2 2.0 seems the to have the same drivability as the earlier car but the actual acceleration is improved by a margin that can be felt. There is no way I would chose the 1.5 over the 2.0 unless cost was MY priority which fortunately it is not.
If I was looking for a ‘performance’ car then the MX5 would not be on the table, the start and the end of the MX5’s major appeal is that the roof comes off and that is really all that matters to ME but may be not to YOU.
Cheers.
Much of the time I think I could just keep my current one long term, given I look after it to illness level, try to limit rain/salt driving (and hose underneath asap if I do), wears a half cover and the top looks like new (really), and even every single time (ever) I’ve opened and closed the top it’s from outside of the car etc etc.
But I’d consider changing if news comes out that the ND is getting buried due to a) an NE or ND facelift coming out and I don’t like the look of it (even if it was still petrol) or worse, some hybrid/electric NE rears its head. Again, that’s a call the paramedics stuff. Of course I could/may change it whilst the ND cycle is happily ticking along as it is. Who knows hat the future brings.
So this 1.5 or 2L ND2 is something which needs to be considered.
Yes, good points. Cost wouldn’t be a priority as such. I’m sure I’d get a 2L GT+ for about 28K with bargaining and if it was the right climate, car sales wise, which it isn’t at the moment.
The annoying thing is if they still did a non-bilstein ND2 that would be a no brainier for me. But they discontinued it.
I like my acceleration at roundabouts and lights and out of corners. So ‘speed wise’ the 2L ND2 is the one on that score. I know you mentioned performance, but compared to the price range competition ‘speed wise’, the Fista ST has a 6.7 0-60, and new upcoming i20N the same. Anything faster is more expensive.
I think, like you said, it’d be the text drives and seeing how it is. I find them annoying though as, often, you don’t get to drive them on the roads you often drive on.
I had a test drive on my own in a 1.5 '16 plate about 3 years ago, when I was scouting for an ND. That seemed fine at the time, but of course that was a time when I hadn’t had nearly 3 years of a 2L, plus a 2L ND2 has arrived since then.
It’s probably down to the suspension difference and whether the 1.5 feels slow compared to my current 2L ND1.
Thanks again.
No, messing with the 2L ND1s power with ‘that’ gearbox is scary to me.
I should add that I’ve had a Mk1 Suzuki Swift Sport in the past and that suspension was pure concrete. Zero compliance. I KNOW the Bilstein ND2 wouldn’t be like that.
I do appreciate and acknowledge that these situations really WILL come down to the fact that I’ll just have to see for myself, but it’s good to get viewpoints from drivers who’ve walked the walk and done the 1.5 → 2L ND2 (or visa versa) dance.
I agree it’s not exactly the same BUT , I recently bought a new 1.5 ND2 Sport at a pretty good discount. Main reason for choosing over the 2.0 was my perception of ride. Coming from the size of wheels and suspension setup. My previous daily was a Bmw 330d 260hp with MSport suspension. Fantastic car but drove me mad on poor surfaces. I admit I occasionally miss the huge power of that engine, but NEVER miss the ride or driving experience. The ND 1.5 is pretty good although it could do with a strut brace imho but that’s a future project … ultimately only you can decide… cheers… Rich
I used to choose cars on the basis of performance ("a good big 'un beats a good little 'un) but my experience of ‘owning’ (some as company cars) maybe 40 cars and driving many more is that I soon normalise to the power output, high or low. Within reason, nothing feels fast, or slow, for long to me.I then start to notice how much I am enjoying driving them, and it doesn’t always correlate.
Some of the most enjoyable cars to drive have been low powered, most notably a 997ccc Mini (not MINI) Cooper with sticky tyres - I have just had to look it up, and that was 55bhp with a 0-60 time of 17s!
I think the car that made the biggest impression on me was a Mk1 Golf GTI 1600 110PS, with about the same performance as a 1.5 MX-5 (1970’s Golfs weighed not-a-lot). But I suppose it depends where you start from, and that was about 1979.
To be fair I haven’t driven the 184, but I love the 1.5, which I bought after a back to back test drive with a 160 ND1 (with sport suspension). Pootling around, the extra torque of the 2.0 was perceptible. Driven harder, the difference felt negligible although glancing at the speedo I noticed I was going a bit faster in the 2.0 (not necessarily desirable).
But in the end you’ll have to drive them and make your own mind up. I’ve said it before, and it’s not very rational, but I rather like the idea that the 1.5 is almost identical in size, weight, and performance to 1.8 NA.
One point though, is after the start/stop, i eloop or whatever stuf which I don’t want or need, the 1.5 now weights the same as my 2l Sel Nav ND1. So the lighter weight of the 1.5 as a prior advantage now gone.
I’ve gone 1.5 ND1 to 2.0 ND2 and seriously thinking about going back to a 1.5.
If I do go back to a 1.5 I’ll change the springs (did this on the previous one) and lower at the same time, out of the box the 1.5 was too soft and rolly…
The power in the 2.0 gives you a real point and punch for overtaking and the acceleration is nice. I do miss working the 1.5 engine in the powerband though, that suits my preferred country road driving routes better.
On the ND2 the suspension is firmer and the LSD is nice to have.
Except that the 2.0 has presumably gained weight as well?
I’m in the sweet spot then for once. Just had a teaser from Brayley Mazda “good news about your 2017 Mazda MX-5”-I assume they want to make me an offer against a new car. No chance, I got mine rust-protected and, barring accidents, it will probably last longer than me, or at least longer than I can get in and out of it.
Yes, the 2L will have gained weight, but I thought that is offset by the increase in hp (if you get my drift). Of course a weight gain can mean more than just speed, granted.
How much firmer would you say?
I guess in my case it isn’t a direct 1.5 v 2L Bilstein comparison, as my 2L ND1 Sel-Nav had 17 inch rims, as opposed to the 1.5s 16 inch.
Interesting how you are considering going back to a 1.5 after having the 2L ND2.
Good points.
Not enough to be uncomfortable and firm enough to help keep it well planted at reasonable speeds through a set of twisties, the 1.5 would have to be worked a bit harder without re-springing to maintain similar speeds and it would be a bit more ragged.
I have been offered £2k more than I paid in Jan 20 for my 181bhp ND2 GT Sport Nav+ and that’s by a dealer.
It is silly season, price wise, so am tempted to replace mine with a higher mileage, older 1.5 (come winter) that I could perhaps spend some money with a performance specialist to eek out some extra power and make use of that model’s higher rev limit and tuning potential.
My point? Back in 2016 (2015?), we had the use of a 1.5 for the day and I remember it being an absolute hoot to drive, making full use of the gearing and rev range on the country lanes and b-roads around Mazda’s event venue.
The ND2 has the enhanced rev limit & power over the 2l ND1, which I was underwhelmed by, but somehow lacks the rawness of the 1.5 - at least my memory of it - and driving it fast is sort of effortless, which for me dulls the fun factor a tad.
I may be entirely wrong of course, I’m relying on memory, need to get a go in a 1.5 again.
