MX5 v Eunos

Buying a ‘5 and Insurance advice Buying Advice
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Hi everyone.  I joined the MX5 OC some time ago but let my membership lapse as we did not get a car. I have just rejoined as we are on the lookout again and would like some advice. Basically, we are looking for a 1.8 for about £2000 and would like to know what the advantages and disadvantages are of a Eunos over a UK spec MX5 and are there any significant differences in basic specifications such as spring and damper rates, diff ratios, gearbox ratios, etc.

Secondly, there is a Berkley advertised relatively locally which seems to be quite a high price for such a low spec. car i.e. no airbags, no ABS, no electric windows. Is there something special about this limited edition that commands a higher price.

Finally, for the moment anyway, on “Sport” versions is the suspension different from other versions e.g. is it stiffer and/or lower.

As a novice where the MX5/Eunos is concerned any advice or offers of local cars would be greatly appreciated.

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I’m going to stick my head in the lions mouth here and say “Get The Eunos”! I have had one for four years 87k (miles) and it flies! I looked at loads of cars before settling on mine. It seems that the eunos’s have less rust, something to do with the fact that the Japenese don’t use salt on their roads. I’m sure that there will be arguments for both sides, this is just my opinion. Best of luck with the search.

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1993-Julyish 1995 Roadster 1.8s, all 1994-1997 UK 1.8s; all 4.100 gearing

July 1995-1997 Roadster 1.8s; 4.300 gearing.

This results is a slightly reduced top speed on Roadsters, slightly improved 0-60, slightly increased fuel consumption (my 1996 Roadster gets about 32mpg).

 

Gearboxes are all the same; the difference is in the final drive ratios.

On standard cars, suspensions settings are the same , UK or import. The S-Special was a sports trim on imports, consisting of a firmer Bilstein suspension package (dampers, track rod ends, slightly thinner rear anti-roll bar), 14" BBS wheels, and Torsen limited slip differential. The springs are slightly stiffer than standard, but are the same length. But, the Bilstein suspension results in a ride height 10mm lower than standard There were some trim upgrades; steering wheel, gear knob. Quite a few Roadsters are not standard, and may have suspension  and or wheel changes etc. “Most” Roadsters will have a torsen LSD, as this was part of the S-Package trim (one above base, equivalent to the iS UK trim). Mazda complicated things when they introduced the M-Package, which was basically a cheaper S-Package (ie. no Torsen). Most import special editions are based on the S-Special, so have the same suspension etc, but there are a few (e.g. G-Limited, J-Limited II etc) which aren’t.

Series 1 NA8C Roadsters had 4.100 final gearing, except for the RS- and R- Limiteds. Series 2 NA8C Roadsters had 4.300 gearing, lightened flywheel, and a raised compression ratio (resulting in a slight power increase, also in UK cars). Series 2 import cars had VIN NA8C-4******* onwards, and can be recognised by a green “Roadster” badge, plain cam cover bolts, fuzzy thin carpet, revised seats.

Series 2 UK cars had the same carpet, but also received a revised exhaust system (presumably in light of revised emissions regulations in the EU). These UK cars retained the standard 4.100 gearing and flywheel. Both UK and import series 2 imports also had a revised power steering system that provided for a little bit more weight.

The following are based on the S-Special:

RS Limited (series 1 1.8, but had Series 2 gearing, and lightened flywheel)

R Limited (mechanics as per the RS Limited)

VR-Limited (series 2)

S-Special II (not strictly a special edition, but made in limited numbers. Only difference is that these had 15" BBS wheels, as per the RS and R-Limited) (series 2)

R2 Limited (series 2)

SR Limited (series 2)

 

I’m not sure if the B2 Limited (series 2) was, but these are pretty rare (dubious interior upholstery). The SR-Limited was the run out model, in sparkle green or white, and was a bit ofa mish mash of parts (eg. door trims that combined early and late model features).

The UK iS model had standard suspension.

The Berkeley was the final edition for the UK; the Berkley and SR-Limited were the only MX5s available in Sparkle Green, anywhere. The Berkley was a special order car, delivered to Mazda Cars Limited as an essentially base model car, and then retrimmed/ upgrades in the UK. The colour is certainly a love it/ hate it shade.

The introduction of the series 2 also seemed to coincide with a revised paint process at Mazda; at least this is the most logical explanation why these models seemed to suffer the most from sill corrosion at one time. This aspect is somewhat immaterial now, in that all Mk1s are now of such an age, that if the sills haven’t already been attended to by now, most will need this at sometime in the next few years. Most series 2 UK cars, still on the road, will have had these attended to by now. Series 2 imports will by now be starting to show signs; my 1996 Roadster (ironically imported by Mazda in 2000), needed sill repairs in 2009, though I probably had this done far earlier than most would.

Advice could be offered on local cars, if we knew where you lived. Update your profile.

 

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These days, good UK cars are so rare that a newly-imported Eunos is less of a crapshoot.  Watch for lower gearing on some special editions (the UK 4.1:1 is bad enough but 4.3:1 is even worse on the motorway).  You’ll need to shop around a bit for insurance as some insurers won’t offer cover and some will load the premium heavily.  If it comes with ageing Japanese-spec tyres, change them before you drive in the wet.

 

The Berkeley has been described as “sad” and is not the best UK special edition by a long shot.  The Merlot and Gleneagles are much nicer, as is a 1.8iS.  The latter is rare as it cost an absolute bomb when new, compared to the spartan 1.8i.

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There was a fairly heated discussion about japanese road salt some time ago. It turns out that in certain parts of Japan, they do use road salt in winter. Additionally, some parts of Japan (eg. Sapparo) have a distinctly maritime climate, leading to its own corrosion issues. Imports, when they arrive in the UK, generally do have far less rust than equivalent aged UK cars, but, by now, most imports will have seen a fair few UK winters, so checking for rust should be essential whether looking at a UK or an import car. Its important to realise that not all UK cars are rotboxes, and not all Roadsters have minty fresh shells. Take each car on their own merits.

 

What is a little worrying is that the standards of repair in Japan sometimes can be quite low, whether crash repair or corrosion repairs.  An owner in Japan discovers the usual rot on his 1996 VR Limited:

Over here, all of that would be chopped out, and new metal welded in. Over there, filler is used to stick a bit of metal in place:

The stick is there to stop the metal part falling off while the filler goes off. To be fair, this would be a repair undetectable with a magnet, and so beats cardboard/ newspaper. I like how he drilled out the weld holes for that authentic looking repair.

But not all their repairs are like this. On another car, the owner tore of the rear wings, and renewed all the panels.

 

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Thanks Gary. I’m more inclined to look ar a Eunos now.

Regards,

Peter.

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Thanks AT.  Your two posts are very comprehensive and very helpful.  They will certainly help me to identify the best option for my needs. I’ve now updated my profile and as you will now see, I live in Norwich.

Regards,

Peter.

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Thanks for the information Rogerzilla. As with the other replies, yours has helped to get a good overall view of whats available.

Regards,

Peter.

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Why not look at both.

I have a 1995 MX-5 1.8is, no rust at all, lovely car, just completed a 2900 miles European tour with no problems.

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 AHA Norwich you say!

Well if you have very deep pockets you could always buy this one…

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/lowest-mileage-mx5-18is-in-the-uk/86790568

Bought my white Roadster from up that way as it happens, No rust anywhere due to the fact it had only been used as a weekend car during fine weather since it was imported in 2004.

Thats what to aim for IMO. Doesnt matter if its a UK or an import (although i favour imports) find one thats been garaged & only used as a weekend car & it`s less likely to have fallen foul to the tin worm.

Keep an eye on Gumtree & Car&classic as well as the usual Ebay, Autotrader & Pistonheads & take your time.

Good luck with the hunt Thumbs up

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I intend to look at both.  Up until now I had only considered UK cars.

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Thanks for the advice. The one in the link you sent is a bit rich for me, especially as I want to use the car for trials.

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If travelling to look at cars, you can get an idea of when a Roadster was imported by checking the DVLA’s vehicle enquiry tool:

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/

Note, sometimes an import is not listed as a Mazda, but as a Eunos.

If you are just looking for a car for trials, I suppose actual body condition isn’t all that important; scabby sills can be plated over to pass a MOT, if thats needed. I hillclimbed/sprinted a 1991 car for a couple of seasons, and feel the 1.6 is better suited than the 1.8, at least in the championships I was in, since the class engine size cutoff was 1.7, meaning a 1.8 was at a considerable disadvantage. 1.6 Roadsters are rated at 115hp, 1.8s; 128-133, depending on the year.

 

1.6 parts are more plentiful, and cheaper, than the 1.8. There isn’t really all that much difference in braking, especially if the 1.6 pads are upgraded. The 1.6 engine is marginally a stronger motor than the 1.8. Problems with the 1.6 are generally due to poor maintenance, with the exception of the crankshaft nose failures associated with pre-1991 cars. 1993 cars are a little heavier than 91-92 cars, because, for Japan, the 93 1.6s gained upgraded door impact bars (ahead of the 1.8 introduction in August 1993). 1.6 S-Specials have more or less the same suspension as 1.8 S-Specials (different anti-roll bars though). All 1.6s have 4.300 final gearing.

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 How about this cheap turbo if looks aren`t important?

http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=80146&st=0

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Thanks once again AT. For the sort of trials I want to do low down torque is more important therefore we want to go for a 1.8 with the 4.3 diff. Between trials we would want to use the car for fun and therefore are looking for one that is in reasonable condition.

DaveBRG5. Thanks for the link but I dont think that that one would be me.

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The 1.8 engine has a 10-14% improvement in peak torque over the 1.6. But the 1996 MX5 is 9% heavier than the 1990 car, so the gain in torque is largely negated. Not only that, but the torque at 1000rpm can be increased by 20% on the 1.6, if you increase the timing to 18oBTDC, provided you run the car on super unleaded.

So a 1990-93 1.6 and 96+ car would, in theory, feel largely similar (same gearing). In reality, the 1.8 is a bit more relaxed on the motorway, but is no where near as sweet an engine as the 1.6 is when going through the rev range.

 

You may be restricting yourself a bit by concentrating only on 1.8s with 4.300 gearing; beyond special editons, which will command higher prices, there aren’t huge numbers of these Roadsters in the UK (N-reg or newer). This is the cheapest such car I could find on Autotrader, anywhere in the UK (actually the only such car). It looks like it was once a S-Spec II:

S-Spec II

Imported 2005, so should be fairly rust free still

There’s a R-Limited for sale here on the OC website:

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/33167.aspx

And then these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3169003.htm

Imported in 1997, so I would imagine there’s a good chance the sills will need attention. On the otherhand, as it was imported in 1997, it was a high auction grade, and was basically mint (before low grade stuff started coming over), coupled to the fact it now has 14 years of checkable UK history. It has the rare factory sill covers but is missing the Recaro seats. The nose looks to have been either replaced, or has seen a paint gun.

This car is NOT a 1996 car:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1152011.htm

It is in fact a 1994 G-Limited, with the Alcantera seats The only dark blue 1996 car was the B2 Limited, which came with chrome mirrors, polished wheels and high backed standard seats with a sort of cloth material that looks like it came off a dark purple setee.

Freshish import:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3129267.htm

 

S-Spec II, looking fairly unmolested. 2007 import, so sills should be rock solid.

 

Very late series 1:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3009588.htm

Now this car is a 4.100 drive Roadster; the clues are the straight instrument stalks, and extra bright bits on the engine (camcover breather pipe, cam cover bolts). While the latter can be changed, the former cannot be done so easily, without also changing the wiper motor.

 

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The low end torque of the 1.8 can also be improved by advancing the timing to 14 deg BTDC - with standard 95 RON unleaded - although you lose a little peak power at 6000 rpm.  Mine has been running like this for 6 years and the spark plugs show no signs of pre-ignition.

If you alter the timing on any Mk1 MX-5, change the CAS oil seal first or it will almost certainly leak once the CAS has been disturbed…  It’s a £1 part and one of the most annoying jobs imaginable - sometimes the CAS goes back in first time, sometimes it takes an hour of trial and error because you can’t really see what you’re doing.

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Thanks once again AT & Rogerzilla. You have given me plenty to think about. I need to review everything you have told me and have a rethink about what would suit us best.