If anybody has a print-out of the settings I’d be very grateful for a copy so I can get mine done correctly. The springs are the Eibach Pro Sport ones. Thanks.
Hello Country Boy
Put some miles on you Orange machine, take a trip up North to Roddisons Sheffield S9 1US 0114 244 5300. Get Paul to align plus corner weight your car.
If you are going to the National Rally you are half way, roughly, to Sheffield.
Maybe Paul can work on your car Monday September 16?
Enjoy your car
Keith
Hi Keith. Thanks for the suggestion, it would be my first choice and it’s a great idea but being a carer I don’t get the time to do anything more than very local (shopping) trips.
From Keith Tanner (he of flyin Miata fame), posted on Miata.net:
[color=blue]Here are the printed alignment specs for the ND from the factory service manual.[/color]
[color=blue]Note that they’re not necessarily what everyone would want - more front camber and caster would be a good idea - but it’s your baseline.[/color]
[color=blue]You’ll also find the stock ride height. Or at least a range of nearly 2" of stock ride height.[/color]
[color=blue]Wide tolerances have been the case for factory Miata alignment specs since 1989.[/color]
[color=blue]Miatas are not aligned at the factory and never have been. The cams are set to about the center. Agreed, just like every Miata ever made, if you want it to work as well as possible, an alignment is a good place to start.[/color]
[color=blue]And now you know what Mazda says that alignment should be, regardless of tolerance. [/color]
Supermiata Street Alignment
For most street driven Miatas, tire wear is the most important parameter. Excess toe in or out will usually cause more tire wear than somewhat aggressive camber will. The OEM alignment numbers with more rear camber than in front, are designed to induce a bit of understeer. Lawyers ultimately dictate the OEM alignment, not the clever engineeers that designed the suspension. The actual suspension geometry is designed to require greater front than rear camber. The SuperMiata Street Alignment will generally result in no increase in tire wear over OEM and possibly a reduction in tire wear if you occasionally load the tires to maximum cornering forces. In general, this Street alignment is conservative and intended for cars that never slide their tires and spend almost no time at maximum conrnering loads.
NOTE: This alignment will require a slightly larger front sway bar. NB factory, FM or Racing Beat 1" solid bars will work. The Racing Beat 1.125 bar is too much for normal street tires (>240 treadwear). The Street Alignment may cause a 100% stock Miata to oversteer, or be too “loose” so it is recommended to use the front sway bars described here.
5.00 ~ 5.5" front pinch weld height
.06 ~ .18" rake, rear higher
(Exocet - .4" rake, rear lower)
Front camber: -1.4°
Caster: >4.5°
Front total toe: +1/16" (.06")
Rear camber : -1°
Rear total toe: +1/8" (.12")
Flyin’ Miata alignment:
Recommended alignment numbers
ND
The ND has a very different suspension design, and combined with the electrically assisted steering, demands different numbers. These are the numbers we use on our cars, and they’ve shown no unusual wear and have pulled over 1.05g on the skidpad.
Front
Caster: 8.0 degrees (basically, as much as possible)
Camber: 1.8 degrees negative (again, as much as possible)
Toe-in: 1/16", 0.15° or 9 arcminutes total (1/32", 0.075° or 4.5 minutes per side)
Rear
Camber: 1.8 degrees negative (matching the front)
Toe-in: 1/16", 0.15° or 9 arcminutes total (1/32", 0.075° or 4.5 minutes per side)
Wow Fred, you’ve certainly looked into things for me, very much appreciated!!
Countryboy.
These are the Wheels In Motion “fast road” figures I had my previous 2.0l Sport Nav fitted with Eibachs adjusted too:
Front Camber: - 0 deg 50 mins
Front Castor: +8 deg
Front Total Toe: +0 deg 10 mins (Toe in)
Rear Camber: - 1 deg 50 mins
Rear Total Toe + 0 deg 18 mins (Toe in) (less than 0 deg 10 mins difference between sides required)
The car handled very well and tyre wear was normal and even.
I had my 2.0 GT ND2 aligned by Roddisons after lowering and it handles extremely well. Unfortunately Roddisons will not divulge the settings.
This is my setup, nd2 lowered on -40mm eibach springs, very happy with this setup.
No probs, I’ve been reading up on the vey same subject!
Couple more interesting tidbits:
From Dave Coleman (Mazda Vehicle Development Engineer)
“Electric steering doesn’t create feedback, it allows it. The way you make steering feel right is by starting with geometry that creates a strong feedback force through the steering column. Done right, the EPAS system only adds assist to reduce this force to a manageable level. This is why all our cars have unusually high caster settings now. Gives more feedback for us to play with when we’re tuning. Mazda3 has 7 degrees of caster, and ND MX-5 has 8!”
So it looks like keeping loads of castor is important for the EPAS “feel”.
Also, an interesting post from Mark Booth on miata.net that emphasises how poor the factory alignment can be:
“I finally had a 4-wheel alignment done on my ND today (first one). The only suspension change to the car is Flyin’ Miata sway bars. Stock shocks and stock springs.
The place I picked is near my home. The tech spent about twice as long as they originally estimated to get everything lined up. This is what he ended up achieving:
Front
Caster: 7.1 per side
Camber: -1.2 per side
Toe: .07 toe IN per side, total toe .14
Rear
Camber: -1.2 per side
Toe: .07 toe IN per side, total toe .14
When the tech first started working on the car it was looking like the maximum front camber was going to be -1.0 if he kept caster at no less than 7.0. But after more adjusting at other corners he was able to come back and get camber up to -1.2 all the way around while still keeping caster above 7 in the front.
I didn’t want to sacrifice caster for more negative camber. When he was only at -1.0 camber I thought about sacrificing more caster, I’m glad I decided to hold the line at 7 on caster.
The factory-set caster (before he started working on it) was 7.2 each side. The camber was ALL over the place. The factory-set camber was:
FL: +.3 (yes, a slight bit of positive camber)
FR: -.3
RR: -1.5
RL: -.6
The toe was all over the place too.
I shouldn’t have waited this long to get an alignment.”
Gentlemen I offer you my sincere thanks for all the info.!!
Guys
reducing the castor a little will give a better feel when the car is loaded up through a corner
Rodders, I’d like the benefit of your knowledge and experience. What settings would you recommend on the car which is only used on “A”, "B"and “Unclassified” country roads, no motorways or city driving. Any advice gratefully received.
Country boy I don’t want to sound evasive or anything but we literally do every car bespoke to customers needs, by talking to them without them knowing we extract soooooo much info on driving styles, use etc & then by looking at the car…tyre wear (we can tell if the driver throws it about) what tyres fitted, what they may choose when they replace them and on and on…how many miles the car has done? How many miles PA ???
i think you get my point.
so I don’t like to comment when we are not doing the job. The reason I posted above was because I could see many people falling into a ‘must have large castor’ trap
Thanks Rodders! Only wish I were nearer, I’d book in!
Interesting, So you don’t agree with what Dave Coleman is saying?
What castor do you aim for with street use only setups?
Omiya-San, did A-Line have you sit in the car while they did the alignment? Or did they add any of their weights?
If you fancy a trip up the M11 then Brian Chandler at BC Cars in Haverhill will sort you out. He sets up several cars for the race series and has won the series himself.
I took mine there and asked for an AutoSolo set up and he transformed the car. Turns in a treat and no longer rips up the front tyres.
He listens to what you want rather than tell you what you want, if you get what I mean.
Paul G