ive been seaching for a thread on this, but must have missed it?
BBR are now offering Stage 2 turbos and s/c for the ND2.
These both offer 300bhp!
as much as this is awesome for the ND2 guys. (and, a bit annoying for somone like me as i specifically got the ND1 as there didnt seem to be a forced induction future for the platform), it also raising a big questions for me:
‘‘Why are these packages 300bhp?!’’
If you look at the kit list, they are identical to the ND1 packages, except for the swapping of a 250bhp rescrictor to a 300bhp one.
The key missing ingredient though is that these ND2 packages do NO include or require: New gearbox. new clutch. new pistons. new rods.
As far as i am aware, these are the same componants on both platforms?* so, why sisnt there a 300bhp off the shelf for the ND1 from BBR?
Discuss…
*ND1 and ND2 have differently domed and dished pistons. but their relative strength and con rods are assumed the same. unless anyone knows different.
A price of £5695.00 I would think was just the start , brake&disc upgrades would be needed Mapping , upgraded fuel/pump delivery, new clutch,light weight flywheel, engine internals the list goes on,.. I been there done that on a few cars they start to then stay in the garage as things always need doing then the fun goes with your wallet….and your burning the candle at both ends twice as bright to run half as long ……but hay ho there your cars ….!
Yes, its easy to end up in a 5 figure upgrade (I did), I don’t regret it as I plan to keep the car for a very long time. That said though, I have seen other turbo owners who appear to have literally done nothing else to their car other than the upgrade, I’d be interested to see how they drive the car though, there is a reason mine has a Wilwood upgrade front and rear.
I get the impression it’s just the fueling that’s held them back until now. Apparently they’ve added a 5th injector to the inlet, which reminds me of my old Fast Forward supercharged NA. Maybe they’ll make that for the ND1 too in due course?
I kind of agree with @exiled-viking re the additional costs, but hopefully few people will go into this without their eyes open. In my experience it’s about hitting that fine line between getting as much as you can from the car without dreading taking it out because you’re worried another expensive thing is going to happen. I’ve been there and it spoils it.
300bhp in an ND will require a bit of respect, but isn’t particularly outrageous, given the car’s balance and handling, and the fact it’s got traction control and ABS. Both things a similarly powerful NA for instance does without.
If they can get similar power from a supercharger I might be tempted at some point when I don’t have to rely on my ND as a daily driver.
I’m led to believe they are supposed to be releasing a fuelling upgrade kit next month but it wouldn’t surprise me if its ND2 only. More power is always possible, they already have ND1 Turbo owners running north of 300 bhp, things just get even more expensive.
For the fueling, i did once come across a good bit of info from one of the US tuners on the forum over either (fab9, i think). they had said the ND1’s fueling was good for 300bhp. and had been used as such.
one of the immediate issues they found with the ND2 is it was starved of fuel long before that. the ND2 has a lesser fuel system (in terms of capacity) than the nd1.
if you look at some of the supercharger kits on the shopping websites, you see this too on the dropdown menu. ‘‘if nd2, you need injectors’’ for example.
BBR’s ND2 new offering for 300bhp also includes injectors.
ND1, in principle based on what ive researched online, doesnt need fuel upgrades for 300.
What I mean by the statement, is that on the ND1 BBR deliberately limit the supercharger mechanically and via map to 250bhp.
When I’ve spoken to them on the phone, and is reasonably common knowledge on the forums, is that this is because
A) gearbox won’t take more / is weak
B) clutch isn’t good enough
C) high compression engine + boost limits, meaning lower compression needed (and so this ties in with a stronger bottom end).
So now to my point of ‘missing ingredients’ for the 300bhp ND2…. Is that it shares all 3 of those ‘issues’ with the ND1.
And so…. Why isnt there a 300bhp ND1 package? What/why is different on the ND2 that BBR are happy to sell 300bhp without addressing these shortcomings…. Aka, including clutch, bottom end in the 300 package
Maybe add the transmission STILL in that mix. Go on the miata forum and ND2 gearboxes post ~ 2021, and onto ND3 are still going pop (albeit seemingly for different reasons). Even someone binned a ‘23/’22 (can’t remember which, but the locked thread is somewhere) 1.5L (yes, a 1.5) about a year ago on here, after his trans went after only a few K miles. ANd moreover, the ‘glory years’ of 2019-2020/1 for the ND2 trans were on stock cars, not 300hp turbos.
I hate Companys that do that when I am quoted a price I expect the quote to be a total cost ….. sometimes I have order’d things in the past then when you go to pay its uprated with vat I tend to think I can make that cheaper my self they loose a sale I get somthing bespoke ….. and half the price…….!
and half the price…….!