Bit more expense for us hill climb & sprinters:
RACMSA confirms Motor Sports Council decisions regarding Frontal Head Restraints
Motor Sports Council, the MSA’s rule-making body, has voted to mandate the use of Frontal Head Restraints in Stage Rallying, Hill Climb and Sprint – with certain exceptions in each – from 2016 onward.
The decisions were taken yesterday (9 June) at the second of Council’s three meetings in 2015, held at Motor Sports House.
After a very lengthy debate, it was decided that from 1 January 2016 an FIA-approved FHR will be mandatory for all Stage Rally competitors, except for those in Historic Category One vehicles, for whom it will be a recommendation in 2016 and mandatory from 2017.
It was also decided that from 1 January 2016 an FIA-approved FHR will be mandatory for all Hill Climb and Sprint competitors, except for those in Period Defined Vehicles, Road-going Series Production Cars and Road-going Specialist Production Cars. Nonetheless, it will be recommended for those excepted competitors.
The relevant new regulations – along with all others approved by Motor Sports Council yesterday – will be published in due course.
Guess start looking now for deals now, not a bad thing all for safety when it’s my head & neck at risk ! Paul H.
Are all harnesses compatible with all FHR devices ?
I only ask as I have just got some 4pt harnesses, bucket seats and a harness bar and need to find out what else I need to do incase I decide I want the FHR as well.
I know they are not mandated for the road going classs which I enter I am just trying to get an iodea of costs
Harness = Sabelt 4pt
Seats = sparco sprint V
Harness bar = TRlane
Roll bar = TRLane GPV
Hi been trying to make some more sense of the draft, they are possibly mandating on 4 pointers the shoulder straps being a maximum distance apart as they feed to go over the shoulders (looks like 3" behind seat to ensure harness fits over HANS securely so they don’t slide off the shoulders), also possible new seat belt width regs , 3" minimum with reduction to 2" as they pass over HANS shoulder plates (new FIA harnesses ?), will dig a bit deeper and see what I can work out and post, am going through process to get approval to put HANS clips on my V2 full face, where to drill and whose clips to use, initial answer was ok but must use FIA approved fittings will post later re this, think Demon Tweeks and JJC Race & Rally being helpful with tips and info, rgds, PH.
Note your comment re “road going classes” I compete in BOC & HSA champs in class H2A1 production sports cars (Mk2 MX5) and my local scrutineer says although not (yet) mandatory as at 2016 would strongly recommend as it may be a scrutineers decision as to whether you run if not equipped, and they do have the decision even over the Blue Book if they consider it necessary. PH.
Really? I don’t think so. The only way a scrutineer could not pass a non-FHR setup in road going would be if the regs specifically stated that they were required, or maybe if a championship insisted on FHR (unlikely).
If something is only recommended (no matter if “strongly”), then no scrutineer has the authority to increase that status.
He can certainly not allow a damaged helmet / belt / seat etc, but he can’t increase any rules above what the Blue Book states.
Andy beg to differ, a scrutineer if he has just reason can stop you competing but he must justify the decision if it goes against the Blue Book (then you can protest through usual channels), have had instances at Prescott where cars in standard production class fitted with standard 3 point harnesses have been stopped regardless of it being allowed IAW the BB, (I initially ran couple of years ago in H2A1 with just lap & diag and G Lock) now standard harnesses not allowed or any 3 point comp harnesses, dictates now 4 point or above even in standard classes - a scrutineers decision is final, maybe you have had tolerant scrutineers but ours do it in the interests of safety, after the recent Prescott incidents covering themselves with MSA backing !, good decision having HANS, fitted the posts to my helmet this afternoon, now shopping around for harness system, rgds, PH.
I take your point Paul but looking through the Blue Book I can’t see any restriction on manufacturers lap & diagonal or indeed 3-point harnesses, so can only assume that this is a specific Prescott requirement.
I would have thought the only way a scrutineer can not allow a standard car is if there are other circumstances - such as a poorly fitted roll hoop that affects the operation of belts or is too close to the soft meaty bits or is in some other way deemed unsafe.
As a speed clerk of the course for many years, I’ve come across some interesting matters that have been referred to me by the scrutineers, but never anything as you describe. I would also expect the matter to be referred to the clerk &/or the MSA steward for consideration rather than just being refused in the manner of invalid helmet or overalls specs. The latter is certainly “scrutineers decision is final” but I’m still not convinced by your thoughts that a scrutineer can insist on extra-MSA specs.
Anyway, I do agree with you in that HANS or Hybrid tethers do the job very well and I’m also in the process of getting some posts for my helmet and weighing up the pros and cons of HANS v Simpson Hybrid.
Whilst I agree that FHR is clearly a good idea and improve s safety, it is not mandatory for road going. So if I turned up at an event and was refused by the s rutineer then by following the correct appeals process I should be able to go before the MSA tribunal or whatever its correct title is and win my case. I would have wasted my time and fuel money and entry fee and would quite rightly be highly aggrieved. I would like to think the MSA would rap the knuckles of a scrutineer who made up extra rules to suit him or herself! The Blue Book is hard enough to understand as it is without the prospect of scrutineers just adding there own rules on the day…ludicrous really and completely unfair on competitors to move goal posts in an unregulated manner!
I can’t see it happening that often though to be honest. Most scrutineer s seem happy to accept written evidence from Blue Book or SRs unless of course as discussed there is something blatantly dangerous with the car.
Steve.
Stev and Andy , both fair comments,(didn’t want to get in a pIssing contest over it !) and do agree that as far as the MSA are “recommending” HANS for certain classes (road going prod /H2A1 etc) have had a couple of discussions with local scrutineers and the comments are that yes it is not deemed mandatory (yet) but would now expect competitors to be looking more towards that aspect of safety within the spirit or confines of the regs (BB) lets see just what next years BB actually stipulates, wouldn’t be surprised if it does become more stringently applied, it is going before the MSA committee again before November for a second reading before a final decision is made, lets wait and see, regarding scrutineers word being law, does happen, I was a rally scrutineer for some 12 years Club to International (Grp 1 - Grp 4) and experience as a competitor, common sense, the Blue Book and Homologation papers played a big part of what was safe, within the regs etc, my experience now as an “ageing” gentleman driver know what to do and how to prepare myself and the car within the rules but I shall be wearing a HANS device - just to be on the safe side as recommended. look forwards to seeing you round the system, (Andy/Steve discuss over drink at Rally Northampton ?)rgds Paul H.
My father is an MSA/FIA scruit. And unfortunately the blue book is definatly the bible when it comes to safety. The only times rules can be bent is when the car does not comply with either a technical regulation or that the non-compliance does not directly put the driver or spectators in additional risk of injury/death. Even when scruits let drives off for a one off, do you really want to be that guy who doesn’t spend the money when all your fellow competitors have forked out to comply with regulations, you will find serveral protests against you. + HANS devices are a life saver, use it and make sure your HANS is matched with your seat angle, any old HAND will not suffice!
Hi, re your above , shouldn’t it read: “or that the non-compliance DOES directly put spectators or the driver”.
Although saying the Blue Book is the bible, correct but can be over ruled by a statement by an MSA official appointed at a meeting as a “Judge of Fact” if something contravenes safety regardless if something it shows allowed in the BB.
Saw a very good reason for the introduction of HANS at Prescott yesterday when a single seater failed to take the hairpin and went straight into the bank/tree, instant forward retardation with the associated neck problems, just trying to work out what angle HANS support to buy at the moment, guess it may wait until the Autosport Show to be able to try some out, it’s only money and my neck and head !!!, rgds, Paul H.
Apologies, wrote that on my phone earlier, you are right though! Deatmontweaks and GPR are really helpful when you go in. Take your helmet, your suit, your seat angle or even better bring the car! They will tell you the right device for the angle and you can choose which. I believe they are coming down on price as well!
Just need a cage, a turbo and some avons and I can dust off my suit!