Courtesy of the Beeb - longest and most impressive speech I’ve heard in my lifetime.
No holds barred, criticism of a lot of the world, and hints of our recent decision too. “A country building walls around it imprisons itself”. You could also say that includes comments by Trump.
I am truly moved, though if anyone else heard it ( the longest speech I’ve heard from Obama, or any other national leader) they may disagree, and there are some things about his own country that conflict with what he said about America.
But, he had the guts to point directly at countries who weren’t willing to participate in his vision of democracy, while admitting that “It isn’t perfect” but was better than rule from the top down. I don’t remember anyone who has done this so forcefully, most politicians are inclined to be - politicians - whereas Obama voices a world ideal.
Yes, rule from the top down is rampant even in a democracy, hence the recent vote which was as much about that aspect by many who dislike intensely not just our present system but what they see as impending federalism in Europe.
Obama acknowledges this aspect of life in the world, dissatisfaction with government, while also condemning the growing trend of Nationalism, racial, religious and even tribal discrimination against others.
I don’t know where he goes from here, but I cannot think of a better world leader than him. We all need to remember that while Obama’s early speeches (pre election) evoked ideals, he had a continual battle with political opponents and parties (even in his own party) which totally limited his efforts to improve American ideals.
If you didn’t hear the speech - don’t knock it - or him. No sign of a prompter, a piece of paper - nothing - it came from his head - and his heart.
He has been an excellent president of the most powerful country in the western world. Great shame the US limit the term of office.
But who will replace him? The thought of D T with his finger on the button is frightening.
Be afraid, very afraid.
Totally agree with the above! Barack Obama was a GOOD man and really quite humble for one in such a position! He was the BEST president for many,many years and I doubt if we’ll see another one of his calibre for many more, unfortunately. God help America, and the rest of the world too!
And if you believe that then I have some of Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction I can sell you.
Obama has done more damage to America than any other president, including the imbecilic George Bush. Under Obama the U.S. national debt has increased by 6.5 trillion! He has signed a multitude of executive orders negating the very constitution upon which America was founded. He has turned Syria, Iraq and Libya into basket cases, tried the same in the Ukraine, and has killed untold thousands of innocent civilians globally via the authorisation of drone strikes. The currently problematic mass wave of immigrants flooding into Europe are mostly fleeing U.S. led or inspired destruction.
When asked what he was good at he actually said “I’m really good at killing people”.
He leaves as a legacy a world as politically unstable as it’s possible to be, thanks to the doctrine of American exceptionalism.
I think you’ll find that humanitarian, President Assad was murdering Syrians by the thousands before President Obama even got elected, and that opposition groups were not only fighting him but each other as well. That some people with names like Hussein, Gaddaffi, Bush and Blair were the ones who messed up Irag and Libya in the first place. Add to the mix Isis and the fact that the Kurds want to carve out an independent homeland from Syria, Turkey Iraq etc. Oh! and didn’t a little ex KGB man with the name of Putin have something to do with the problems in the Ukraine!
Good question but a little simplistic under the circumstances. Whatever he did/does has to be in conjunction with EVERY other faction involved, so if the blame is to be laid, let’s lay it fairly shall we and don’t put all the blame on one man who seems to be trying to mend what others have already broken!
Don’t (Pun) worry Simon, some of my most heated exchanges have been with people who I call friends. State your case, hold your views but NEVER personalise any differences. Discussion, debate and differences of opinion are part of a mature, adult life and can broaden the mind!
You’re right, but you did ask what he had done, so what you really meant was what has the US government done, and as before I say that whatever the US does has to be in conjunction with every other party involved otherwise the result is failure. So as before, don’t just blame Obama/USA but ALL concerned.
H’mm
Anti American and Obama abuse expected, but some of the above comments, are nothing to do with the topic listed, or my comment “If you didn’t hear the speech - don’t knock it, or him either.”
I’ll listen intently to anything Saz has to say - as he’s very well informed, but comments as listed sound more like some of the rhetoric that spread round after WW11 (America didn’t win the war - we did). ignoring the countless young Americans who bled to death around the world, fighting for something they new nothing about. Granted many of our boys went the same way, but Obama’s speech included peace, understanding and goodwill, not war and death.
Obama is under criticism in the States for NOT doing more in Libya, Syria, the Ukraine and other places, while those critics also say they are tired of being the world’s police force, a case of wanting a cake but not eating it. You also should remember that American presidents, while being classed as ‘Chief Commander’ have no control over the CIA or some of the other services either, and are under tremendous pressure from the Senate, Congress and American business to “Do the right thing” which is against some of their principles - in some rare cases. Obama - as I see it, has been fighting the Senate every day of his presidency, and been unable to do what he wanted to do - like close Guantanamo for instance , and as " He has signed a multitude of executive orders negating the very constitution upon which America was founded" I’ve never heard of one, so would be interested in information about them? I know he has recently rejected suggestions he should issue an executive order for one of his pet hates, so that makes me think he’s not issued any, so that remark would help my education. Obamacare wasn’t an executive order, (it should have been) but a stroke of good fortune, it was passed by the vote of one solitary Republican.
No man or woman alive - or dead - has the power or the intellect to know everything , or anything when it comes to information given by senior officials, which they can either act on or disregard according to who and what they are. Both Bush and Blair may be guilty of believing, or even - as some suggest - of motivating the falsehoods invented to justify war - the second one - against Iraq. The first didn’t need justification IMHO.
Yes - some Americans have their faults, so do the English - and many people around the world, but there are also good honest people in all countries, our views are distorted by the media - or certainly some of it , depending on what you want to believe. We convinced ourselves that you can’t ‘fake’ reality - viz - the News on TV, then some of us woke up to the fact that even TV news can be slanted and even falsified, to give a national perspective of what was classed as ‘truth’. If they don’t, then others do - remember those aerial shots of bumps in the desert classed as “Hidden sites of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq” - which came from our own or American security agencies?
In a democracy, the man (or woman) at the top get’s the blame, either during or after (when we find out the truth) for decisions made while in office, where often as I said above, their own vision has been clouded by senior officials. It’s called ‘motivation’. If they turn round and pass the buck - where it should be, then they are accused of that, but in politics they must always tread the party line - “Don’t rock the boat.”
The same thing happens to some of us at work, if you don’t see it, then your head is either up in cloud nine, or buried in your own thoughts. It’s also named “A conspiracy”, and it’s used to destroy former leaders. JFK and Clinton suffered this, while being human beings, proving that they aren’t the Gods we though they were. That doesn’t - and shouldn’t detract from what they tried to do during their term of office.Yes, JFK suffered too from election fiddling, not directly by him, but his father. Jack and Bobby died for what they believed in, and to this day the real culprit(s) have not been named.
You don’t have to look abroad to see conspiracy, exploitation of office, or exploitation in the world either, we the English, stand condemned in many places round the world, so I don’t walk proud waving St. George’s flag.
Nothing whatsoever to do with waving flags of any kind Gerryn. I’m also curious as to why you consider actual facts to be anti American abuse? No rhetoric here, the UK has shared responsibility for the mess that Iraq and Libya have become, and any abuse ought to be directed toward the architects of destruction within both those nations.
I don’t usually comment on political matters but felt obliged to inform, especially as your post (as with that of countryboy) revealed a distinct lack of geopolitical knowledge.
Where shall we begin?
You say you were unaware of any executive orders issued by Obama?
It’s difficult to give an accurate total of their number as there are more introduced at regular intervals, but it currently stands at around the two hundred and thirty mark. It is the content and the wording of Obama’s EO’s that mark them out as different to others. Many of those EO’s contain language known as restrictions, words that create binding legal obligations such as ‘shall’ and ‘must’. Here are a small flavour of the hundreds so far enacted. One might reasonably wonder if Obama is preparing the nation for war?
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
-EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
Washington is also rumoured to have removed the first strike restriction on the use of nuclear weapons. Hitherto a nuclear exchange was only possible as a defensive measure in response to being attacked. The neocons in Washington now consider a first strike nuclear attack against (insert name of country here) to be a perfectly acceptable strategy. Did you know that? Just read that last sentence again slowly and let the enormity of it sink in. This happened on Obama’s watch.
The problems in Syria originated (as with those in Libya and the Ukraine) not from any ‘little ex KGB man’ as intimated above, but from CIA funded and trained proxy armies who are euphemistically known as ‘freedom fighters’ when in the employ of achieving American strategic interests, and terrorists when not. I could link you to many articles written by persons of the highest political calibre, Dr Paul Craig Roberts for example, who was special adviser to President Reagan. He asserts that Washington (not Russia) has violated every word of the Syrian cease fire agreement. I won’t add such political links as that isn’t the purpose of this post.
In Yemen 3800 civilians are dead, and more than 6000 wounded due to Saudi attacks. The U.S. and U.K have played a pivotal role in this catastrophic war, enabling and supporting the carnage with sales of arms worth over 110 Billion dollars to Saudi Arabia. No, there isn’t any flag waving from me Gerryn, I’m actually ashamed of my country at the moment.
I don’t intent to continue this debate so this will be my last word on it, I just respectfully ask that you perhaps do a little more research of your own before offering such wholesome praise for a man who has left the world in such a parlous state. Judge the man not on what he has promised showman like via teleprompter or earpiece, but on what he has actually done. Washington is now pushing for war with Russia, and the constant media demonisation of Russia, and of Putin in particular are preparing the Public for this eventuality.
Obama’s eloquence which so impressed you is nothing more than smoothly delivered propaganda.
As you say there are good people in all nations, but they are usually the ones who do the suffering and the dying due to the hubris of those they elect to office.
O/K - I’ve done some research on this, and your comments are either misguided, untrue or guilty of believing anything you see on U Tube.
Currently National debt is increasing by the second - See the National Debit clock. Here’s what Wiki says about that -
Historically, the US public debt as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) has increased during wars and recessions, and subsequently declined. The ratio of debt to GDP may decrease as a result of a government surplus or due to growth of GDP and inflation. For example, debt held by the public as a share of GDP peaked just after World War II (113% of GDP in 1945), but then fell over the following 35 years. In recent decades, however, aging demographics and rising healthcare costs have led to concern about the long-term sustainability of the federal government’s fiscal policies.[4]
On July 29, 2016, debt held by the public was $14 trillion or about 76% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[5][6][7][8]Intragovernmental holdings stood at $5.4 trillion, giving a combined total gross national debt of $19.4 trillion or about 106% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[7] $6.2 trillion or approximately 45% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were theChina and Japan at about $1.25 trillion for China and $1.15 trillion for Japan as of May 2016.[9]
What it doesn’t say are several points, The Democratic party is (more or less) the equivalent of the Labour party in the UK, the same as the Republican party is Tory - left and right wing in that order. Remember the debt left behind by the Labour party when last in government? And the memo left behind at the treasury? -“No money left!”
America suffers ‘National Disasters’ constantly, as such is declared by the president (whoever that is) results in millions being spent to aid the homeless, domestic loss and renovation. ObamaCare provided hospital and medical aid to millions of poor Americans who can’t afford the subscriptions to private healthcare systems - which aren’t cheap I would add.
Subsidies to other countries, Government departments and the military also drain finances. The downturn in American economics resulted in millions of dollars being spent on either backing up financial institutions or banks, as well as American Corporations which were struggling to stay alive. As Jobs were threatened, you don’t let a company employing thousands of people go under. In case you forgot - the recession was literally world wide, though I assume you lame Obama for that too? In America, it started with the two national housing corporations going bust; Too many loans to individuals who couldn’t keep up the payments. They sold many around the world - including some of our banks, who though they were onto a good thing - obviously not. Then Major American players became suspect - Goldman Sachs early on, others followed. Obama had NO control over any of this, but he did attempt to sort it out. (you didn’t hear that?)
In America - and everywhere else in the world - people are getting older, and the resultant cost, pensions, healthcare and even housing adds to national debts, True here or anywhere in a democratic society. You could of course call for euthanasia of the aged, but you’ll get there one day, and then it’ll be your turn. If you don’t understand any of this then there’s no hope for you, and I’m wasting my time.
As for that U tube link - which you chose to bring into your argument, you need to know that many american TV stations are independently owned, many by politically minded individuals, and they devote their time to criticism of current administration, of either party, if it’s not their own. Obama is a self- deprecating person, fairly obvious if you have ever watched his annual press dinners, where he often to refers to himself - and others - with a dry sense of humour. I haven’t read that book, but I suspect that comment is taken out of context, (incomplete) and probably refers to his status as Commander of the armed forces, where drastic action calls for drastic measures; so he would have to sign an executive order to allow use of drone and missile attacks - per se. Obama would be the first to say that “The ball stops in my court” when it comes to resulting flack he gets from anyone, anywhere, he wouldn’t say “It wasn’t my Fault”, though he has no knowledge - unless he ask for it, about any particular strike.
That HE has “killed untold thousands of innocent civilians” is about the wildest accusation I’ve read so far, while I acknowledge that anyone in a war zone is liable to be killed while trying to kill opposition fighters it happens anywhere a war is going on. I see no link to past history, where we and our allies killed untold thousands of innocent civilians in Europe while fighting the Nazi led army. They also contributed to the list, by bombing and machine gunning thousands of fleeing refugees. We may have done too - but no-one talks about that. You can point a finger anywhere in that respect - Russia for instance, steam rollered across Europe killing anyone in it’s way - as well as exterminating many Polish prisoners and even their own people after the revolution. Overall - it’s classed as ‘collateral damage’ and get’s brushed under the carpet, but I admit it’s sad, but inevitable. That’s why war itself should be banned - totally.( part of Obamas speech - IF YOU LISTENED TO IT.)
On the subject of Executive orders - So far as currently available, he’s made 240; none of which affect the Constitution, though some critics claim “some of them are unconstitutional”. That doesn’t mean he’s changed it, merely that (in their interpretation) he’s deviated from what’s allowed in the constitution. Critics are usually Republican - striving to find any excuse to demean the presidency. We have the same, nearly ever day in the Houses of Parliament. Wherever there’s a ‘Top Dog’ someone wants to bite them. One site actually shows the content of Obama’s executive orders, though it’s not updated, but every item on that list is certainly within the constitution as I understand it - 'cept I’m not American, so don’t know it by heart. Franklin D Roosevelt made well over 3000 orders in his presidency, and JFK made 214 in jis single term of office. Bush Jnr made over 300, his father less. - Try a google search for “Obama’s executive orders in office” - as I did for more information.
So - I haven’t bothered picking more holes in your original post - I haven’t the time to spare, so I would ask you for more proof of what remains unanswered, other than hearsay, or what you want to believe.