Oh Fmk1KK my MK1, its all gone wrong

[Ron_Thompson]

Soo without draggin this out, I’ve had some welding work done and noticed a few issues. The welder I used (one from the adviced welders list on the fourm, with good reviews) took the softtop off to do the rear sills welding (sounds like a propper/thorough job already dosent it) and I’ve noticed a few oddities with a few things upon its return. now I’m not wanting to send anyone down the river so some helpul advice on how to get a few things right would be much appreciated. As Im pretty much on the edge of having to loose her.

So its back, looks gorgous no rust on the rear to be seen (or soo I thought). not bad for Eunos no 965

first thing I thought was he did a really good job, I’m planning on doing some other body work repairs before a respay so I wasnt looking for a respay at this time FYI. I got it back (yesterday) late afternoon after the joke of a north drive on the M6 and it was due to rain today so I thought I’d best go out and give all the drain holes a good clean to start on the right foot.

And urrrrrm there arnt any on the rear anymore. their all welded over!

After some jiggery pokery with a tiny bottle cleaner brush the passanger side went clear with some sprincles of rust being released in the process. although their now much more like slots than holes.

However I cant get the drivers side clear at all ,there welded over.

FYI Before I undertook any of the aforementioned jiggery of the pokery I did message the welder and his first responce was, after being asked I cant seem to locate the rear drain holes have you relocated them? “Where are they situated” (my ■■■■ fell out at this point, having had my car deliverd via low loader to this guy after looking for advice from the fourm as I didnt want to use a local garage who dont know the oddities of the NA).
I sent a picture through to him from google with big arrows showing there normal location and was told he dosent think the replacement panels from MX5 haven (I supplied to him) came with them and I would have to drill a coiple of holes. Hence my frustrated jiggery pokery.

Well I would love to tell you many thanks for reading but buckle up.

So at this stage I was looking at rain incoming with no drain holes and started to think about the other work thats been done I’d best check my soft top. and…

Now how do I say this to put you in my frame of mind. looking at the obiously fraacked rain rail I do notice some aged brown tape so its been pushing its luck for a while I’d guess. I’ve ownerd the car since 2018 had it outside for 2 years without any rain ingress inside (I know it sound hard to belive) but I hadn’t having only bough a hardtop last year. So looking at this I’m not sure itll keep the rain out (once agin no drain holes, Frack my life) also you may notice the softop is actually now loose on the passangers side, still no idea where that should go to. need to reserch on that any advice appreciated once again on where it should be bolted to.

were not done yet. I also sat in the car and couldnt find the seat belt stalk so slid the seat forward to find this.

I think when the seats were put back in it been put in ontop and was pinned down and broke, although it does look rusty. Question? Is this now fracked or is the metal part just a cover?. Any one have a set for sale?

Ok I think I’m done. Staring out the window 1.5K plus down (did all the reserch looked at the fourm and independent online reviews). still in contact with the welder hopefully hes going to help with some of the issues. but as alot of stuff was no doubt rough before hand (being fair) not sure how much he’ll be helping with. My thoughts are little to none. so shes going under a friends monsoon cover untill I can get the drain holes drilled (anyone local to the NW social meet location, Bowling Green Pub) It lives round the corner any advice or assistance much appreciated once again.

[Jeff_jthspace]

At a loss for words. Hope someone can assist.

[ast]

The drains are not part of that outer panel, and they’re meant to be slots (usually open them up with a dinner knife). I’m not even convinced Mazda intended then to be “drains”, but condensate reliefs (water should not be getting into the sill to have to be drained out, it gets in, usually, if there is some damage to the hood). The lip, where the jacking point is, pat of the sill. When the outer outer panel is replaced, you’re supposed to see a join where the metal curved under and butts against the lip. He’s slavered everything in filler. I would take a sanding block to those areas and figure out where the metal is, as well as locating the missing join. Its going back into the body shop anyhow, so nothing lost there. If you hadn’t said he used supplied repair panels, I would have assumed he’s plated over the rust. There there is rust falling out suggests that. If they have cut out all the old metal to expose the sill, any repairer would have set out derusting the sill itself, making good repairs, and zinc priming everything.

Now you can see how the lip is formed.

Sanding it back, you can take care of that flaking paint properly, and uncover the repair panel. If its taking you just through filler, well, the repair wasn’t any good to begin with and wouldn’t have lasted, making your respray no good.

Hindsight is everything, but this is why its worth getting the repairer to take a few photos along the way.

I would not trust the sprayers to prep this area that well, so its worth taking the time to get rid of the obviously loose paint/mastic.

Roof issues; the guys I used never took the roof off. Sprayer I have used won’t take the roof off nor the beltline trim; it can be brittle and is an expensive part to replace. So they will just mask up. The problem is there will be a bit of overspraying and cracked paint

Rainrail; for an old Roadsterlike yours, I would find it difficult to believe that the hood has never been replaced, at least once. The original hood is rivted to the rainrail, and its common to recycle the old rainrail with a new hood, patching up the rivet holes with whatever tape is to hand, including parcel tape. That tape might have been there before the repairs. The rainrail is now 30+ years old, it time for a new one (recommend NB type rainrail, as its more rubbery). The corners of the rainrail are held in place by pine clips,difficult to reach, hence often torn through.

If the hood has been removed, I would assume its not been refitted properly. I woud follow the instructions on miata.net (garage section) about refitting and torquing properly the spreader bars that lie behind the carpet. Replace the rain rail at the same time; easy job. Tightening these in the correct sequence is vital to ensuring no leaks (its more about tightening in sequence, rather than to a specific torque, I tighten by hand, going around, in the right sequence, nipping them up). At the same time you can check the actual drains are clear; these are nothing to do with the slits in the wings. I wouldn’t go around drilling holes, but would concentrat on opening up the slits.

Seatbelts; no issue here, straighten out that metal guide, pull back down in place the plastic cover.

[Ron_Thompson]

very detailed reply many thanks, I did get pictures of the repair works see below, just with the already lengthy post I didnt want to put people off any further.

Having given your reply (many thanks) some thought should I be worried that water will sit inside in inner sill then and a hole though that will need to be made?

With regards to the softtop you are correct sir, It had a brand new one fitted about 6 years ago prior to my purchase, but its was a big plus for me as at that point i didnt have or considder a hardtop. I shall get a rain rail and streighten up the seat belt I wasnt sure if the metal was the part that stopped me flying through the window. Many thanks once again.

[Ron_Thompson]

FYI for anyone intrested the other side was much worse.

He did a great job with the battery tray.

But cant help but worry about the rear sills that are welded up through both panells it seems. Advice definetly needed on that please.

[ast]

The photos are helpful in revealing a basically decent repair.

I think you will have to work on the “drainage” slits that we there, rather than adding extra holes. If the garage can do that, with a flat punch type tool, then great. These don’t have to be very big; just enough to waggle a knife in. Also, as the repair is clearly all metal, you can ask him to make sure the seam under the dooris present and correct; some garages wil just knife in a line in the putty, and it looks awful. I don’t think the slits are actually welded up though.

Water should not get into the sills if the rainrail is intact and fitted properly. The bit of the sill that rots out isn’t even a draining desigh. There are various folds and pockets that MX5restorer identified; if water gets n there, its never going anywhere.

Now you could have the sills catastrophically filling with water, to the extent you hear water sloshing in there. In most cases, its because there is a problem with the roof. And in these cases, its been going on a long tim, the owner has ever egregiously ignored problems or just gotten used to them (the cabin will smell mouldy, the boot will be damp, with mould on the carpet, or a boot lid covered in condensate. The deck carpet might feel dry to touch, but it will be a mess underneath. You hear of the cars that when they lift that carpet, they find the bare metal removeable section basically dissolved away. That comes about due to leakage over a long time. Under the deck carpet is a rubber mat. Water sits under there.

Another cause is a car stored in a damp garage, like mine is right now (been waiting a year to get the roof replaced, no can do due to the Pandemic apparently). I do my best to keep air circulating around the car (propping the boot lid open for instance). Then you get condensate, which collects in these pockets.

So, if you get the roof sorted out, I wouldn’t be so worried about the sills filling with water; at either end of the rainrail (which is basically a gutter), there are drain tubes; check these are clear.

[Ron_Thompson]

Thanks for the advice. I do think hes done a good job, excellent comms and a decent guy hence the tone of the inital post, just a few things that do need some attention. The rain rail will definetly be getting done but I can’t help but feel with regards to risk mittigation that the drains are fully cleared, even if thats not their primery role. As you said, I think its a decent all metal repair maby just a little happy with the muck on the leading edge but easility sorted, although I do like the clean look if I’m honest lol. Thanks for the deailed reply once again put my mind at ease with regards to most of the issues.

[trufflehunt]

“…I did message the welder and his first responce was, after being asked I cant seem to locate the rear drain holes have you relocated them? “Where are they situated” (my ■■■■ fell out at this point, having had my car deliverd via low loader to this guy after looking for advice from the fourm as I didnt want to use a local garage who dont know the oddities of the NA)…”.

I’m absolutely astonished that anyone claiming to be an expert welder on cars could be unaware of the existence and purpose of sill drain slots. I’ve owned easily 40+ cars since I passed my driving test in 1973, and as far as I recall they all had these slots.

Almost equally astonished to see the welder being recommended on this forum.

[Scottishfiver]

Welding is one matter…at any level of skill & competence.
I can weld…maybe two iron fence posts say…but you’d not want me within 10 feet of your 5.
Coachbuilding , panel forming & “joggling” etc to “artisan” levels is quite another.
Very easy to conflate the two.

[Ron_Thompson]

My opinion exactly and the reason I felt soo comfortable with shipping my car to the guy to do the work in the first place, rather than driving past a good 20/ 30 garages along the way. My question is on such an key element on the NA (which BTW your correct they have alwasy been there my NA is 1989 965 off the line) how has this not happened to someone else (or has it any they havnet noticed, sounds soo unlikly) who has used this guy or are the reviews phoney. Either way its me as a member who’s ultimately paid the price and unitll I’ve streightened things out and spent some time speaking with the welder (whos away until wednesday now) it would be poor for me to be burning any bridges. However I can assure you he is on the list/map and has excellent reviews on this form. What more can I say.

[Ron_Thompson]

Also agree and I didnt go to a welder, i can weld my brother and father can weld. MIG, TIG Stick were all engineers (well my brothers a Mechanical Technician, but you know how they get lol), God my dads a retiered Coach Painter. Thats why I wanted a top quality job (paid what I did) and why I went off the fourm reviews on here. not throwing any blame it its what it is and this is where I’m at now.

[ast]

Not all cars had sill drains. First gen Renault 5, Rover SDIs and I think maybe Saab 900s had a sill venting system. On the Rover, I think they might have vented the sills to the engine bay, with the idea that heat from the engine would keep the sills dry. Where you are wrong is thinkinb the “drains” were part of the repair panels from MX5city. They are not. I know some owners do go and drill extra “drain holes” in sills. Personally, I don’t think this is too clever an idea, just another place for road grit to get in. And if you noticed, the reason your sills failed was because of the failure of the wheel arch lip seal, allowing entry of dirty, corrosive salty water.

You car btw, unles its a US spec car, is not the 965th off the line. Eunos Roadster production started some months after the Miatas started. Before yours rolled off the line in JUne 1989, about 11,000 other MX5s had been made for the US and Canada.

From the pictures posted, I can see the venting points. They just need opening up. They might have been like that before the car went under the knife.

As for accusing forum members of posting phoney reviews; I really doubt it. Those posting postive reviews probably really did think they had a terrific job, and its probably the first and last time for many they’ve had welding repairs done on a car for more than just getting through a MOT. I’ve had a couple done, and very happy with garage that did the work. The stickie was created to help identify who does repair MX5s, or has some sort of track record. There is no endorsement by the club.

[Ron_Thompson]

On much I’m sure your right Saz, wasnt saying they were phony reviews just pointing out my experience with refrence to what was stated by trufflehunt on how unbelieveable it was. I do actually think as I said the guy is top just a few bits not quite right as I said. But as trufflehunt said hard to believe when something like this happens.But after you reassured me how little of an issue it is I’m not as worries as I was.

Not wanting to get off the point too much and Im sure your right once again but just to clarifiy as I’m not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes my car is a jap import Vin NA6 1000965 DOM 25/07/89 and your right with the USA builds just trying to make the point that the drains arn’t anything new as to once again outline what yourself and trufflehunt had previously mentioned. FInally couldn’t agree with you more on the last stament obiously as I havent gone out my way to say that or name the Welder specifically. I’m sure other have been happy but it is something thats been missed and something people are usially really aware of on the NA’s.

Just FYI also I’ve had the car for a few years and the first thing I did and often did is always clean out the drains (inside and outside the cab) so I do know what they were intatct and clear. Although I do take your point and your advice on openeing them back up which I will do.