Pilot Sport 4, 205/45/17, no longer available with a W rating

Hiya,

I was expecting to buy Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres in the ND’s 205/45/R17 size.

These, in this tyre size, used to have a W speed rating.

However, after much research scouring the web, including Michelin’s own site, it seems that 205/45/17 88 W are no longer made, but ‘replaced’ by 205/45/R17 88 Y

Now, I’m totally aware that the ‘88’ bit is irrelevant compared to the OEM Bridgestone’s ‘84’, but a Y rating?

Question: Am I correct to believe that the new Y rating on these tyres in this size could/will make the tyre compound/ride harder and the tyre itself not lasting as long, in comparison to the former ‘W’ speed rating?

It’s not the end of the world, as I’ll just get Goodyear Asymmetric 5 in the 205/45/R17 88 W size, but it would be interesting to know if the Pilot Sports, moving from a ‘W’ to ‘Y’ speed rating only (in 205/45/R17 size), makes any difference in reality…

Hello and welcome from Nottinghamshire… The Y is speed rating only… W is up to 168mph and Y is up to 186mph… So to the best of my knowledge you’ll be fine putting these on your ND, but can’t answer as to whether the compound is harder causing a firmer ride, though I’d suspect not…
Rob

And the 88 bit may be relevant, as it denotes sidewall stiffness, the higher the number the less ‘give’ in the sidewall. This will affect ride quality and may affect turn in and feel.

Cheers,
I’m sure I’ve read a number of times before, over the internet in general, that the ‘Y’ has different compounds to account for the higher potential speed that ‘Y’ has to account for. And they wear a bit faster too.
I’ve got two cars in the family with 205/45/R17 size, and expected to change to Pilot Sport 4, as I’ve experienced them in the past (on a Nismo RS Juke) and to say they totally transformed the car would be the understatement of the year.
But, like i said, ‘if’ a Y rating is in any way different to a W (except for the obvious), I’ll just get Asymmetric 5(s).

Ref the 88 bit, I thought that don’t make any difference in reality in this scenario (an ND), as that is more of a ‘pressure’ thing, ie, a load rating of 84 on a 1 tonne car at a 29psi will basically be the same as an 88 on the same 1 tonne car at 29psi.

Not strictly true. The 88 denotes the maximum “Load Capacity” of the tyre. The higher the number the greater the load each tyre is permitted to carry,(also taking into account PSI etc). Because it’s higher does not necessarily mean it’s stiffer. It will depend on the materials/compounds used and the construction of the tyre. Michelin should be able to answer the questions with a definitive answer. :slightly_smiling_face::+1:

No I agree, not strictly true, but again in general, tyre manufacturers increase the sidewall thickness (and maybe alter the construction- who knows) to increase the load capacity which increases the stiffness which affects ride quality (badly) and in my experience, improves turn in.
On my MX5 ND, with Bilsteins and Bridgestone S001’s, (84w) there doesn’t appear to be any small bump absorption in the sidewall of the tyre or the dampers - the ride is pretty atrocious at low car speed and it manages to find road irregularities more than any other car or bike I’ve owned.
It does improve slightly when everything’s warmed up a bit, but not by much.
So, the plan is to replace the wheels (30AE are ridiculously expensive so I’m storing them) the tyres, with PS4’s as they have a good reputation for ride comfort on numerous different cars and I’ve had them before, and the coil overs with either Tein or Meister, as both have adjustable heights and basic damping adjustment.
From what I’ve learned over many years I think the fundamental problem is the poor quality overly stiff OE Bilstein dampers trying to control the overly soft (and too long) OE springs, which is not allowing the suspension to work over small bumps, which also leads to too much roll when a consistent force is applied (when cornering) and the dampers have time to move.
ie: high damper speed is too stiff, and low damper speed is to soft, the complete opposite to what you need for good ride quality. I’m not even sure the OE dampers have separate high and low speed damping circuits tbh.
I’ll stop now, but add that I didn’t buy the Mx for its ride quality, but it could be so much better than it is.
Comments from suspension professionals welcome😁.

As I originally commented, it’s not so much the 84 to 88 load rating which concerns me, but the W to Y speed rating. It’s a bit of a mystery if you try to find answers on other forums concerning other cars, too.

At the risk of ending up with Y speed rated tyres tyres which are harder than the W rated pilot Sport 4 former ones, plus faster wear, I’ll probably just go for the Asymmetric 5. Even more so if I am at least considering doing the rears first, as the front OEM Bridgestones still got 5mm left. I’d have W on the front (the Bridgestones) and Y on the rear if I did the Pilot 4.

Why do you say they are harder…
The Y just means the tyre tyre can be used at higher speeds, (as already pointed out). It doesn’t mean they are harder in my opinion.
Personally, you probably wouldn’t be able to tell the differences anyway. As when they change the specifications, the compounds and everything else is taken into consideration.
I went from the OEM Bridgestones which quite frankly were rubbish to Maxxis which are great in every respect for day to day use.
A matter for your good self and just buy what you fancy, like and are used to would be my opinion. :slightly_smiling_face:

Harder compound tyres ( if there’s even any difference in the compound between w and y speed rating tyres) will last longer than a softer compound tyre. You’ve got it the wrong way round, and IMHO tbh are probably over thinking the whole speed rating thing a tad.
BTW, from experience, asymmetric 5’s are stiffer, (worse ride quality) than PS4’s.

Yes, cheers.
Probably am overthinking it, but I’m sure in the past I’ve read that NickD guy remarking about higher speed rating tyres (in comparison to a lower rated one, like Y compared to W,as being discussed) being a harder ride and not lasting as long.
Sorry to him though if I got this random memory wrong though!

Aah, I understand now. If you’re concerned about ride quality, PS4’s are a lot better than asymmetric 5’s ime, (in the same size and load rating) and personally I would go for the lowest load rating available if you’ve got a choice. It’s a very light car in today’s obese and unbalanced (usually very front heavy) car world, and tyres are designed with this in mind.

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Oh, and apologies if I came across as a bit rude before. Not meant that way.

The lowest load rating for the (now Y speed rated) Pilot Sport 4 in 205/45/17 is 88. This is also the lowest load rating of the Asymmetric 5, too. Finding an 84 load rating, as per the OEM BridgeStone Potenzas isn’t easy. And I don’t want to get those again.
I also find that whenever I’ve got GoodYears in the past for other cars (I’ve had Eagle F1s for a mk1 Swift Sport) I liked how they had a FULL 8mm of tread. A friend had the same with another set of (different) Goodyears. I find Pilot Sport 4 have nearer to 7mm new.
Something else to consider I guess. If the Pilot Sport 4 in 205/45/R17 OEM size still had the W speed rating I’d get them no issues, but as even shown in this thread, how a speed rating effects ride quality is a bit of a mystery. Similar to the information I’ve got from browsing on the internet too.

No, you didn’t come across as rude lol. Don’t worry, I’m quite conversed in internet forum stuff over the years, and am not a snowflake who ‘gets offended’ if the sky isn’t blue enough.
Thanks again.

Erm, no he didn’t :slightly_smiling_face:

Even if there were a compound change, which is unlikely, what effect are you worried about? If it is losing two tenths on the 3 roundabouts before Tesco’s then possibly invest in some tyre warmers or do the full on BTCC warm up procedure. Bottom line, you are worrying about nothing that will ever trouble you.

As for sidewall stiffness, while there maybe some slight constructional difference in the shoulder design, but again, likely not, it is the air pressure in the tyre that gives it its ultimate stiffness. You may notice differnces between makes of tyre and even differnces between models of tyre from the same brand but the chances that you are going to detect a difference between extra load tyres and not, when run at the same pressure is vanishingly small.
At the moment I am at Silverstone working for a very well known car maker. On cars of the same specification there are Bridgestone, Pirelli and Michelin. In the past Goodyear have also featured. So when looking for differences, understand they come different from the manufacturer as standard. And Mazda fitted 88 load rating tyres on the run out of the MK3.

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Cheers. Yes, apologies for thinking it was you who made the comment I referred to.

It is the losing the two tenths on the roundabouts pre Tesco that concerns me. That and the roundabouts pre ASDA too :sob:

All jokes aside, it looks like the Pilots will be fine then in the Y speed rating.
Cheers again.

But when going between Tesco and Asda looking for the best deal, the harder tyre will be more consistent and the softer one will have gone off and be losing you three tenths per junction by then. Swings and roundabouts. Also, if you are on the weekly shop, then you need the extra load to stop overheating and delamination. It will be fine however for just stock piling toilet rolls. :skull_and_crossbones:

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It’s an MX-5. Not really conducive for a decent weekly shop, hence why I wasn’t so much interested in the 84 to 88 load rating change.

I love a good, technical review.

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I love a good panic after reading reviews on the internet. :rofl:

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Yes, if only I’d have had Kumhos eh