Quality of Rust Repairs

Looking for some experienced opinions on the quality of the rust repairs done to this 1995 UK Mk1 I’m looking at buying.

It has fantastic history with the last owner having the car for 20 years.

It’s priced at £4500 and had rust repairs completed in 2019. It has been kept in a garage since. I would be keeping the car in a garage and sorning over winter.

Im concerned about rust showing through after a few months of ownership. The repairs seem high quality but I’m no expert. The body shop was well rated.

I accept this is a risk of the car but can anyone offer any wisdom regarding this level of rust showing (and the one bubble at the rear of the rear sill) and how bigger problem I’m actually likely to have and how soon.

Thanks!






.h

You really need a boroscope with a good resolution camera to get in between the seams and see how well the job has been done. These rust from the inside out so usually by the time you’re seeing it at the surface… however as it’s had repairs the rust on the seam ‘may’ just be surface.

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It looks like a decent repair in the past although they didn’t completely finish that seam correctly. Even repair section if I’m not mistaken should have the drain slots in the seam at the jacking points. It appears that this area needs attention again along the entire sill and a little bubbling on the end part.
I suppose it’ll never go away unless cut out or really grind back to good metal and treated.
Depends what everything else looks like on the car, probably a tad too much for a repaired car that’s getting a little tatty around the sills again. It’s treatable along the seam but the bubbling on end needs some more surgery to fix.

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That’s very helpful insight thank you. The rest of the car is good and it’s getting harder to find these with lower owners/FSH. Just nice to know the entire history of the car, still got original Mazda plates! The owner had passed away so being sold by his daughter. There’s a sentimental value. I’ll talk to his daughter about the price as I assume there’s wiggle room.

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I actually spot a crusty chassis rail bottom picture. Is it underseal flaking off or more serious?

I’ll check that out good spot

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Even the (allegedly) best repairer in the country will only put a 3 year guarantee against MOT failure (their words). Rust per se is not a MOT failure.

The repairs are 4 years old. It matters not that the car was garaged or not.

The obvious surface rusting in the last two photos is not new metal rusting, but old 25-30 year old metal. I’d probably be bothered by the skimming of filler over the seam.

The new (4 year old ) forms against the 30 year old jacking lip, but its not actually the lip.

When you take on a 30 year old car you are not buying a new car. You are buying a car that will need ongoing maintenance, and extra intensive inspections and ongoing repairs tp the metal, both new and old.

A boroscope is going to be a waste of time.

You form a view on the longevity of the repair through looking at a repair file. Did the repairer take photos of the repair in progress. Did the repairer replace or patch the inner sill. Most will cut out the rotted metal and make up repair bits, with will likely make the “boroscope” inspection more difficult given all the welding wire etc in there.

Typical inner repair. Note the lip being the original metal. Also note the jacking points, which are also so called “drain points” (I think more likely condensate relief, and actually a way for water to flow through. Water should not be in the sills full stop). Over the years, attendant owners may have opened these up a bit, Use of a jack can mangle the metal, scratch the paint.

The zinc weld through primer I have no idea how long it “lasts”. It cannot offer the same protection as galvanization, which was never part of the Mk1 MX5. It cannot last as long as the electroplate zinc-promer Mazda used (according to its patents). It buys you time only as the next custodion of the car.

The blebs by the mudflap, new or old metal?

I suspect if you went to a certain business, starting with “M” and complained about minor rusting on a 4 year old repair, he’d say wise up.

I’ve no idea of the rest of the car. Is it low mileage, is the trim in good order, is it UK spec or JDM etc etc. But, after trying to understand the state of the recent NA market, based only on asking values, £4500 is now towards the lower end of the market. If you are expecting completely perfect condition, to Mazda standard, you are looking now at £10-15k.

The repairs 99% of repaired cars get are patch repairs. They’re only removing rusty metal that they can see. Someone on the forum divulged the costs of a true restorative repair. Thats not £1000-2000. More like £6-8000. Not just the end of the sill patched up, but the entire sill replaced (including outer panel). Probably getting to a point now where such a repair is viable. ie finding a £1000-2000 rotted car (with full FSH and provenance) and turning it into a £10,000 car is potentially realistic with some prospect of a margin.

Bare in mind now the trajectory of “modern classic” values now. Some numbers out there are getting crazy (not just MX5s; a 1991, pre-face lift Austin Metro automatic is on a forecourt fot £7k, Mk4 Escort Cabrio (a pretty awful car in tis day); £6.5k, Vauxhall Rascal van; £11.5k). But maybe these are fair prices. £4500 is not so much. Provided there are photos to show a decent underlying repair, its a fair price given the age of the repair. If there is no evidence of the approach to the repair, or you cannot speak to the repairer, then I assume its a plate over and filler job, which owners with rose tinted glasses think was a lovely repair and expensive at £300 a side. Many of them out there.

Such is the effect of inflation (ignoring all other model-specific factors), £4500 in 2023 money is £3800 in 2019 money, I spent a lot of time “restoring” a S-Limited, but when it came to sell, as usual too many cheap charlies out there. The £5500 asking price for a car with brand new full arch and sill repairs, new carpet, new hood, new coilovers, new wheels/tyres, exahust, trick engine dressing and provenance, became £3500. It did feel like a kick in the teeth at the time.

If I was the seller, I would resist taking offer. Clocks have gone forward, some sunny weather, buyers will be lining up.

There is nothnig in these photos that would concern me on a £4500 purchase, bodywise. If you are intent on ownering a 25-30 year old car that has been welded for another 5 years, it is reasonable to assume that in those 5 years, you will be investing in more patch repairs, including to the 2019 repairs. You will have to spend more time, and money, in those sill areas compared to if the car was brand new. I’d probably be more focused on the mechanics. If the mechanics are in good order, £4500 is a fair price.

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Thank you for your comprehensive and insightful reply.

I can understand the trajectory of the market. That does reassure me that the asking price is on the fair side.

The car is UK 1.6 90hp in black, so basic spec. 1995 with 102,000 miles. It has only done 16,000 miles in the last 20 years since the most recent owner (who has not long passed away) acquired it. He wasn’t so much of a car enthusiast I’d say but did maintain the car whenever anything needed doing, including yearly services etc. All from the same garage and all documented with further service history from when the car was new. The car is in fantastic condition generally apart from the wheels which need a refurb and some questionable tires. It drives very well, stops well etc. Starts on the button despite being sat unused for best part of a year.

It’s had 2 main repairs in recent years. 2 new rear wings and work to the sills, the combined cost being around £2600. I spoke to the body shop who did the sill work, they just said they weld out any rusted areas and weld in new panels. The finish looks good but hard to know what’s going on inside. They’re quite reputable locally.

I accept rust repairs are average maintenance for these cars. Just hoping to at least get this coming summer out of it without worrying about rust! I want a keeper and I do like that I know the entire history.

I get the feeling the seller would like to sell the car to me (they’ve dealt with some annoying people) so I’ll see what they say about wiggle room. Cheers.

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If the seller has photo evidence of the repair then probably OK. If not leave well alone. The worry for me would be the filler in the sills over the joint between wing and sill, as someone has already mentioned.

Are there any pictures of the repair process?..The rear wing to sill overlap line is missing on both sides, so puts me off with the attention to the correct detail that is should of been repaired to , which shows me it is not a dedicated Roadster specialist that carried out the work… the bubbling means the arch as filler and needs to be cut out for fresh metal, the front underneath of the drivers front wing patch is just that and could be a lot better and would like to see behind and the sill section ,she needs work , including some underneath, so for me personally the asking price is far to high.
M-m

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If you can pop off the mini wheel arch liner, there is a plug underneath. Remove this and look inside with a torch. It gives you a reasonable idea how bad it really is under the repair.

I had a slll welded by supposedly the best of the best recommended in a STHT article, and drove 150 miles to the place. Unfortunately the welder had just left the firm and the owner did the job instead. The rust was back 18 months later.

If the arches have been done, if you look in the boot, past the wheel wells, you should be able to see the repair.

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