REAR DAY RUNNING LIGHTS

Technical Area Electrics & ICE
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Have you considered REAR DRL’s?

I have long thought the mandatory introduction of front DRL’s to new vehicles a few years ago

was only a 50% job.  Yes, front DRL’s definitely aid visibility of a driven vehicle to other road

users including pedestrians.  Today vehicle manufacturers seem to strive towards creating ever

brighter front DRL’s “my DRL’s are brighter than yours” seems the situation.  In many cases the

ultra bright DRL’s rival dipped beams in their intensity giving some drivers the false impression

they have their driving lights switched on, in fact they have no rear lights at all!!  In well lit

suburban streets their vehicles are visible but it is not uncommon that such a driver then drives

onto a unlit motorway/dual carriage way… a recipe for being rear ended.

Indeed automatic head lights rectify the dangerous night time situation, however, this is not the

case in day light misty conditions.

The MK4 impressed at the Bowcliffe Hall launch in 2015, sensibly Mazda had fitted REAR DRL’s

as well as front DRL’s.

My 2014 Sport Tech Recaro’s front fog lights have been converted to DRL’s using 35 watt leds, plenty

bright enough, replacing the 55 watt halogen bulbs.  These new DRL’s extinguish when the side lights 

& head lights are switched on,   Carl at CBS Autos has converted, successfully, plenty of MK3’s

to this system.

How then to get front & REAR DRL’s?

Carl came up with an ingenious solution.

If you, like me you want front & REAR DRL’s on your MK3/3.5/3.75.  Here are Carl’s details:-

CBS AUTOS NELSON BB9 7BJ 01282 697413 www.mx5specialists.com

 

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I didn’t realise that the Mk4 has rear DRLs until the Goodwood parade lap a couple of weeks ago. Very sensible.

You are quite right, there are always plenty of people to be seen at twilight driving around on front DRLs only.  Not only does this leave them without any rear marker lights, frequently the DRLs are too bright to look at other than in daylight.  

‘Automatic lights’ is a misnomer.  They are a driver aid that needs to be monitored.  They don’t help in misty daylight conditions or in heavy rain when headlights are needed, and have resulted in more, rather than fewer, people driving without rear lights in poor conditions.

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Speaking of automatic lights, the ND also has the option of automatic dipping headlamps (active by default I think - mine were).  However, I have disabled them (menu option in MZDC).  They did seem to dip reasonably well for oncoming traffic (but perhaps not quite as soon as I would generally have done manually).  However, during a couple of very clear bright full-moon night runs, the lights were dipping/undipping like flashing Christmas tree lights as the road twisted towards and away from the moon.

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Just a few questions for folk. 

Are the rear DRL’ s on the mk4, a seperate light fitting?

if not, do they just utilise the existing rear lights?

OP, you say when side lights switch on, they go off, so no rear lights? Did you just mean the DRL’s go off?

Are these rear DRL’s brighter than normal rear lights like the equivalent front DRL’s are?

Love the front ones I fitted to my NC1. Halo DRL’s around front fogs, modules to control DRL’s to 50% brightness when other lights used, RX8 light switch stalk to control the front fogs. I realise not everyone will switch to using their proper lights in times of decreased visibility though. Wife has her light switch set to auto on her Audi, it drives me nuts, as said they don’t switch to proper lights when needed in " misty " type situations. 

Barrie

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Why the shouting?

 

Actually that just about sums up DRL’s. They shout at you for no good reason.

 

It started with BMW and their Angel Eyes. Then everyone else played catchup. My Christmas tree has more lights than your Christmas tree.

Before you know it every house has a Christmas tree and no one sees the road.

 

 

I had a 4x4 follow 10m of my bumper the other night. The equivalent of 6 dipped headlights burning the paint off my boot lid, so I flicked on the rear fog.

Tee He, he went bananas. Main beams flashing, the works. Then he dropped back, switched off his fogs, I turned off my fog and life carried on.

 

Paul G

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Don’t understand the shouting comment.  How on earth could you deduce that I was shouting? Isn’t it the way, that if you want to shout on the Internet, the use of capital letters is the norm? Other than that, I certainly can shout alongside the best of them when required  More interested in answers to my questions TBH. Not owning a mk4 and never been close up to one, I am wondering about the rear DRL’s, are they just the rear lights switched in different ways etc.

Barrie

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[quote=Bettabuilda]

Don’t understand the shouting comment.  How on earth could you deduce that I was shouting? Isn’t it the way, that if you want to shout on the Internet, the use of capital letters is the norm? Other than that, I certainly can shout alongside the best of them when required  More interested in answers to my questions TBH. Not owning a mk4 and never been close up to one, I am wondering about the rear DRL’s, are they just the rear lights switched in different ways etc.

Barrie

 

 

i could hear you right over here barrie…

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From observation at Goodwood, it was the same area as the rear marker lights that was lit for the DRLs.

It’s bright sunshine here now, but I will experiment later if I can and if I remember - it’s a bit awkward as the DRLs on the Mk4 go out when the car has been stationary for a few seconds.  I might need to recruit an assistant.

They are LEDs I think, so I suspect it is the same ones as the rear lights with variable brightness.

 

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[quote=Bettabuilda]

Just a few questions for folk. 

Are the rear DRL’ s on the mk4, a seperate light fitting?

if not, do they just utilise the existing rear lights?

OP, you say when side lights switch on, they go off, so no rear lights? Did you just mean the DRL’s go off?

Are these rear DRL’s brighter than normal rear lights like the equivalent front DRL’s are?

Love the front ones I fitted to my NC1. Halo DRL’s around front fogs, modules to control DRL’s to 50% brightness when other lights used, RX8 light switch stalk to control the front fogs. I realise not everyone will switch to using their proper lights in times of decreased visibility though. Wife has her light switch set to auto on her Audi, it drives me nuts, as said they don’t switch to proper lights when needed in " misty " type situations. 

Barrie

Hello Barrie

When I switch the side light/head lights on only front DRL’s extinguish, the alternative is to wire the DRL’s

to dim when side/head lights are switched on.  The 5 watt rear DRL’s remain on when side/head lights

are switched on.  Therefore the two o/e rear lights have a total of 4 x 5 watts, not overly bright, they do

not compete with the brake light visibility.

Another benefit, should one rear light bulb fail then there is a back up light.  I seem to recall my Volvo 850R

had twin rear lights.

Regards

Keith

 

 

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Keith, thank you for explaining  I asked, as having fitted my own front DRL’s, the next step might be rears? You never know. So, rears on all the time and “doubled up” for night time driving then. Are they bright enough during the day as the front ones certainly are.

Barrie

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[quote=Bettabuilda]

Keith, thank you for explaining  I asked, as having fitted my own front DRL’s, the next step might be rears? You never know. So, rears on all the time and “doubled up” for night time driving then. Are they bright enough during the day as the front ones certainly are.

Barrie

Hello Barrie

My Rear DRL’s bulbs are the T10 501 5 watt.  In bright sunlight just about visible, in dreary overcast conditions

they are visible in the same way regular 5 watt rear lights are.  I am going to experiment with some Cree 7.5 watt

T10 501 LED bulbs.  My concern is if I make the Rear DRL’s too bright they will out shine the 21 watt brake lights. 

Horizon LEDS are a good source for all types of LED bulbs.

Cheers

Keith

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Now most cars on the road have DRLs, unlit vehicles (older cars and bikes) are at a real disadvantage since people start looking for the lights (easier) rather than for the vehicles themselves. I drive with headlights on more now, and assume I’m invisible on the bike unless I get eye contact. And yes, DRLs are horrid at dusk when people don’t switch to headlights. Unlike the focused beam of dipped headlights, DRLs wazz out light in every vaguely forward direction.

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[quote=Keith W]

 

My thoughts were the same Keith, insomuch as if they were as bright as the fronts then they would be competing with fog/brake lights? It certainly gets rid of the issue of forgetting to put lights on at dusk etc though. Not had chance to look into my rear lights yet for placement of rear DRL bulbs, or figure out how to wire them in? If I utilised the DRL module already fitted for the fronts, the rears would dim when full lighting switched on. Having said that, 10w dimming to 5w might not be so bad? At 10w as DRL’s, approximately half of fog/brake light bulb wattage. More thought input needed methinks. 

Barrie

 

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Here’s what the Mk4 manual says about DRLs.

DRL Mk4

To try and answer your questions

Are the rear DRL’ s on the mk4, a separate light fitting?

They appear in a circle in the same place as the tail lights.  They might be the tail lights! (see above table)

do they just utilise the existing rear lights?

Possibly.  I can’t tell without an assistant, especially as the car has to be moving before the DRLs come on!

OP, you say when side lights switch on, they go off, so no rear lights? Did you just mean the DRL’s go off?

The DRLs (at least the front ones do) go off when the lights are on - see table.  There is no circumstance where the vehicle is moving and there are no tail lights.

Are these rear DRL’s brighter than normal rear lights like the equivalent front DRL’s are?

Well they are certainly not as bright as the front DRLs.  Hard to say whether they are in fact just the tail lights and/or whether they vary at all in brightness from them, unless one could watch somebody driving the car and switching the lights on to see what happens.

 

Best I can do I’m afraid without driving up and down the road operating the light switch with somebody else looking at the lights.

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I didn’t quite follow this. Are you suggesting it was BMW that first fit DRLs? I always thought is t was Volvo and Saab. I certainly remember a friends Volvo back in the late 70’s had DRLs although back then of course they used just regular light bulbs.

 

Going slightly off topic, it is something of an urban myth that DRLs make driving safer and reduce the likelihood of accidents. Consider this, if you can’t see another car clearly in normal daylight conditions without it having lights on, there must be a greater problem than visibility. It is more likely to do with the driver’s vision. Take a look at the history of DRLs and some of the studies that have been done (granted, not many) and none show any significant benefit. One of the largest done in the US apparently found more cars with DRLs were involved in accidents than those that didn’t have them. I don’t find DRLs make a car easier to see as I have pretty good eyesight and can easily make out a car from some distance. A couple of lights don’t make it any more noticeable, except when it’s dark of course, in which case most sensible drivers have their headlights on… 

 

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I’ll have to change my mind if I see some convincing research, but until then I just don’t believe this.  They might indirectly increase danger if people drive around on them at twilight because of dazzle or the absence or rear lights, but contrast is the most important aid to seeing things. 

What isn’t taught to new drivers, and should be, is that it is entirely possible to look without seeing.  Who hasn’t had a SMIDSY - “I’m Sorry Mate I Didn’t See You” - experience?

There are two main reasons for this - 

 - you are actually blind when your eyes are moving.  This is easy to prove.  Look in a mirror and first look at one of your pupils.  Then look at the other one.  Although your eyes have to move, it is impossible to see that movement yourself.  When you scan for traffic at a junction, your eyes don’t pan like a camera.  You look at a series of points on an arc.  You only see clearly what you actually look at.  If an object is at a point between one of the points you look at, you will not see it - you might pick it up in your peripheral vision if it is bright, or moving, then you will look at it and see it.

  • if you are on a collision course with another vehicle, it will remain on the same bearing and therefore appear stationary in your field of vision.

I came across the attached article a few years ago that explains it far better than I can, and suggests  ways of reducing the risk of missing something (or being the something that is missed).  Principally, these are 

 - Look twice. 

 - Keep your headlights (or presumably some nice bright DRLs) on.

I have a copy of this article saved and I tell anybody who will listen about it.  It takes a few minutes to read but it’s well worth it in my non-expert opinion.

 

 

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If rear DRL’s are no brighter than rear lights then whats the point. Switch your rear lights on.

 

If rear DRL’s are brighter than rear lights then they will compete with brake lights.

 

 

 

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For the people who drive round in dusk or darkness with just DRLs on - all too easy to do when the instruments are commonly lit all the time.

I agree that overbright ones would make brake lights harder to see, and for that matter indicators.

I’m sceptical of the value of auto lights, but they are safer when in conjunction with DRLs and full time rear lights.

 

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I’ve just read the article you linked to John. Makes very interesting reading (and sense) Some folk on here talk about “invisibility” paint on their cars, one if the reasons I fitted front DRL’s to my car TBH. Anything that helps me to be seen has got to be a good thing, being brought up in the 70’s on a diet of motorcycles and surviving a serious accident where I wasn’t “seen” by the car driver (my right leg points in a slightly different direction to the rest of me though as a result) I drive, not cautiously but in a manner where I try to be aware as much as possible to what us going on around, behind and ahead of me. DRL’s might just generate a comment like ‘look at that plonker’ (insert own expletive there) but at least I’ve been seen. I realise it’s each to their own and all that, new cars have these items as standard, I chose to retrofit mine, other folk may not want them and keep well away. I respect their choice. Doesn’t make me right, or them wrong, it’s a choice and we enjoy the freedom of being able to follow that ( unless you’re driving a ND  )

Barrie