I’m looking for technical help or recommendations on: Slight steering shudder on braking
Hi all
I can sense a very slight “shudder” through the steering wheel when braking fairly hard even at low speeds. Not when braking lightly. Also noted that when driving out from cold I cannot detect it until I’ve driven a mile or so. I have also noticed similar when just driving along on the motorway a few days ago at 60mph and above. Feels like the slight shudder goes through the whole car.
In November last year new front discs were fitted and in June this year I fitted new front pads and slider pins and a reconditioned Mazda offside front caliper as the other one was sticking and running quite hot.
I cannot detect any one of the discs/calipers running hotter than the other and both wheels spin freely when off the ground. She has also just passed the MOT a few weeks ago.
New Kumho tyres were fitted in August this year and new Meister Z Crd suspension fitted in January.
Simple stuff to check, wheel nuts tight, a lost weight from one the front wheels and did you fit the slide pins in the correct positions when renewing?
Cheers Mick…very interesting🤔…
So even though I’ve replaced the offside caliper which was obviously sticking and getting very hot, it could possibly be the nearside caliper causing the problem??
Could be uneven deposits of pad material on your front discs, giving the impression that the discs are slightly warped (which hardly ever happens).
Ideally you’d go to a private road or track and do a few medium stops until you feel an improvement in the pedal feel, then drive for a few miles without using the brakes to let them cool down, then park up overnight without the handbrake.
Hi there. I hope you got something from my post that helped you.
My Sport Black brake judder was very frustrating.
Even though I changed pipes, sliders, discs and pads, the damage to the caliper had already been done.
I would change the nearside anyway, just to be sure.
Is it hotter than normal?
Hi…yes,thank you. Only difference with mine is that I can sort of sense similar sensation around 60mph and above through the steering wheel and my passenger can sense it slightly through the seat etc at the same time. So basically it’s there slightly at above the 60mph mark but also at slow speed when braking fairly hard from say 30mph ish down to stopping. Very confusing to me.
60mph ish (from past experiences) was the spot when out of balance wheels showed up with vibrations. Of course it could be other wheel related stuff like a bent rim. If you’ve exhausted all other possibilities get a balance check on the fronts, or swap front to back.
Difficult for others to know really, its like rattles in the car, process of elimination.
Just been out for a drive. On returning I have checked the heat of each hub. In doing so I have seen this rustyish sort of groove across the surface of the nearside brake disc. It’s not very deep but finger nail stops in it. These were new Pagid discs fitted about 6 weeks prior to me purchasing the car. Have looked at other side and there’s a very faint mark across this one too,but no where as deep as the nearside. pics 2 and 3 are nearside…1st pic is offside
That looks like the pads have been stuck on to me.
Might be best to take the wheels off and clean the discs with emery to remove the stuff that’s adhered to them.
Have you been using strong wheel cleaner and then put the car away looks like the pad has stuck to the disk whilst stationary for a while
Clean off disks with a scotch cloth and take pads out and run a coarse sand paper over the surface of pads
Also I have seen quite often when people have had the disks of they have put them back on and not cleaned the hub, so it dosnt fit flush causing it to run out slightly
More noticeable when you just put slight pressure on pedal
I don’t use wheel cleaner. Yes it does look like the pads have been stuck to the discs tbh,that’s what I thought when I saw this. Can’t say about dirt left between the hubs and discs as it wasn’t me who changed them, it was the seller.
It could be possible that the seller had some wheel cleaner on them before the car went up for sale. Then the car stood in a showroom for a couple of months until I purchased her.
The best solution I guess is for me to fit another pair of front discs🤦
discs are relatively cheap you could borrow a dial indicator and base to see what the run out of the discs are or just buy new ones
dealers and valeters (detailers ) use very strong detergent to clean wheels hand car washes normally use truck wash and I’ve seen more dried out wheel bearings and greaseless brake pins than what you see in the old days when most cars had steel wheels
good tip don’t use so called alloy wheel cleaners they are far to strong a detergent degreaser
clean your wheels more often so brake dust ect doesn’t get a chance to bed into the lacquer
I had similar with my NC 3.75. Judder felt through the steering wheel at high speed under heavy braking. So I put it down to warped discs. I found that replacing discs and pads at the same time sorted it.
Interesting that you replaced discs first then pads 7 months later. My understanding is that doing that risks transferring groves and ridges from the previous discs to the new. Of course that depends on how many miles and how much braking you do between those changes so it may not be applicable. To confirm the cure I also had to travel some way along our local motorways to find flat, smooth and even stretches plus suitable opportunity with no following cars to test braking characteristics at speed.
My previous 5, an NA, came with a distinctly warped wheel on one corner. After having new tyres all round I noticed unexpected judder cruising at motorway speed amplified through the steering wheel when braking at those speeds. Stopping at a tyre shop to have balance checked the fitter suggested putting the warped wheel on the back (where it had been before all tyres were changed). Certainly helped. Clearly doesn’t get rid of everything but there was much less judder cruising at speed or when braking. I’d suggest rotating your wheels by swapping corners (or just front to back if they are directional).
It may also be little coincidence that you’ve fitted new tyres and suspension. Tyre sidewall stiffness may be emphasising a slight warp possibly amplified by stiffer suspension? Just spit balling there …
My father has a similar problem with a vw tourag which had new discs fitted. One of the new discs was very slightly warped resulting in a very slight vibration under braking. Obviously it may not be the problem with your car as its a rare thing.
This may relate to how the brake disks were changed. When old disks are removed, there is often a fair amount of rust, dirt and general crud about. If the surface of the hub where the brake disk mounts is not thoroughly cleaned, then the new disk may not sit perfectly flat against the hub. This may not be felt at first, as the new disk is of even thickness, but after 3000 miles or so, the disk will wear unevenly and you’ll then start to feel some juddering through the pedal. So, if you replace disks & pads, make sure you clean the surface of the hubs meticulously before fitting the new disks. And of course, fit branded, good quality disks!
Thank you to all for your input so far. Much appreciated.
I am going to start by changing the front discs and pads for new ones. Any advice here as to the best value /quality discs to buy?
If this doesn’t solve the “shudder” issue I will have to look further.
To me when I first read it, it had all the hallmarks of a warped disc.
The marks look as though the pads have been stuck on after washing maybe? My MX5 would do that and they would become stuck together after every washing with a hose pipe, then quite a bang as I drove off next time.
Discs and pads should be changed at the same time, not with weeks/months between them.
The more I thought about it, the less I believed the disc to be the problem. They would have to be wildly out of true to cause that at 60. And that you would feel through the pedal every time you braked.
I once had a defective brand new Pirelli tyre on a Saab 900. It showed itself much as you describe, vibration at speed. When it was sent back to Pirelli there was a slight flaw in the tread moulding (a lump on the inside out of sight) which was causing it to be out of balance no matter how many times the dealer rebalanced the wheel. So obviously it was replaced free of charge.
Also, if the brakes were really hot, I never used the handbrake as this can cause slight warping over time.
The problem is the pads, but it could also be a warped disc, a caliper/s requiring maintenance, wheel weights, tyres or even the ally wheel?, all need to be checked, but those pads on her need to go in the bin, they are cheap nasty pads, and not doing you much favours, for road use we recommend mazda OE, no brake fade, no dust and last, Autolinkmx5 tracked down the Co in Japan that make the mazda branded pads for them and are a lot cheaper to get through them, I have been using them personally now on my daily for 6 years, and before that , the branded items ( and i have a heavy foot) and fit them to everyones that call here , unless its a track dog, then thats different area in recommendations
M-m
