The Fiat 124 is dead

[DonT]

@John Aston

I am allergic to most cars which plunder the past in a misguided attempt to add glister to a new model . The 124 Spider epitomises why the approach is flawed as it is an inelegant parody of what was a very pretty car in period . Add in a comically flatulent exhaust note , excessive overhangs and fussy detailing and you end up with a car that still looks fun but could , and should , have been so much better .

Fiat did a better job with the Cinquecento homage but their bravest , and best , designs since the original 124 were the brilliantly utilitarian Giugiaro designed Panda in 1980, and the sublime (if opinion dividing )Chris Bangle designed Fiat Coupe of 1993. Neither owed anything to the past - and neither does an ND MX5 .

I might acknowledge a small nod to the Z4 and a bigger one to the TVR Tamora though…,

The Fiat 500 seems to have succeeded tremendously well.

[Countryboy]

@DonT

@John Aston

I am allergic to most cars which plunder the past in a misguided attempt to add glister to a new model . The 124 Spider epitomises why the approach is flawed as it is an inelegant parody of what was a very pretty car in period . Add in a comically flatulent exhaust note , excessive overhangs and fussy detailing and you end up with a car that still looks fun but could , and should , have been so much better .

Fiat did a better job with the Cinquecento homage but their bravest , and best , designs since the original 124 were the brilliantly utilitarian Giugiaro designed Panda in 1980, and the sublime (if opinion dividing )Chris Bangle designed Fiat Coupe of 1993. Neither owed anything to the past - and neither does an ND MX5 .

I might acknowledge a small nod to the Z4 and a bigger one to the TVR Tamora though…,

The Fiat 500 seems to have succeeded tremendously well.

  

The latest ones seem to be trying to become SUVs, but when they first came out (9 years ago?) I thought it was a brilliant little car.

[Davyo]

@Gerryn

Bit premature to say any car is ‘Dead’, the 124 has been withdrawn from the UK market only, not world wide. I can’t see Fiat abandoning the brand, or the market, regardless of downturns currently in the latter.
The loyalty of MX5 owners is plain enough, but competition between brands should be encouraged, not disparaged, if no-one competes there are no visible signs of improvement in any other brand. whether it’s design, spec. or price. The big bad bear syndrome springs to mind.

Totally agree & Mazda don’t need to worry as no comp, not that the 124 was comp as basically a 5 other than engine and body panels.Both are overpriced when you look at the quality of build, but what else is there for the price ? I ordered the 124 because i liked it over the ND.The Abath i drove hate the noise,plus its way too much money for what it is and sounds embarrassingly daft.When i 1st sat in the SLK 250 AMG wow,its in a different league.No bare metal visible on the interior,build quality inside and outside is outstanding.Not rattles from the side windows or the roof but quality comes at a price.However you can pick up a 2014 with 24k on the clock for £15k,no brainer really.

No doubt  Mazda have the small rag top market to themselves at the moment.So when the gearbox gets notchy or the brake pads wear uneven and the rear discs turn rusty what else can you buy.Othèr than go back to a MK3 there’s nothing.  I’m surprised the likes of  Honda /Nissan don’t get in.Think Mazda need to watch their backs and sort the issues with the ND out.Then again after Landrover/Jaguars announcement today its squeeky ■■■ time the car industry

 

[DonT]

@Countryboy

@DonT

@John Aston

I am allergic to most cars which plunder the past in a misguided attempt to add glister to a new model . The 124 Spider epitomises why the approach is flawed as it is an inelegant parody of what was a very pretty car in period . Add in a comically flatulent exhaust note , excessive overhangs and fussy detailing and you end up with a car that still looks fun but could , and should , have been so much better .

Fiat did a better job with the Cinquecento homage but their bravest , and best , designs since the original 124 were the brilliantly utilitarian Giugiaro designed Panda in 1980, and the sublime (if opinion dividing )Chris Bangle designed Fiat Coupe of 1993. Neither owed anything to the past - and neither does an ND MX5 .

I might acknowledge a small nod to the Z4 and a bigger one to the TVR Tamora though…,

The Fiat 500 seems to have succeeded tremendously well.

  

The latest ones seem to be trying to become SUVs, but when they first came out (9 years ago?) I thought it was a brilliant little car.

We had a Fiat 500 as a hire car last summer, not a nice car to drive

[richardn]

@John Aston

I am allergic to most cars which plunder the past in a misguided attempt to add glister to a new model . The 124 Spider epitomises why the approach is flawed as it is an inelegant parody of what was a very pretty car in period . Add in a comically flatulent exhaust note , excessive overhangs and fussy detailing and you end up with a car that still looks fun but could , and should , have been so much better .

Fiat did a better job with the Cinquecento homage but their bravest , and best , designs since the original 124 were the brilliantly utilitarian Giugiaro designed Panda in 1980, and the sublime (if opinion dividing )Chris Bangle designed Fiat Coupe of 1993. Neither owed anything to the past - and neither does an ND MX5 .

I might acknowledge a small nod to the Z4 and a bigger one to the TVR Tamora though…,

You mean like a MK1 looking like a fat Lotus Elan?? (I’ll get my coat )

 

[John_Aston]

Quite so - but at least it was easier on the eye than Lotus ’ M100. A brave effort but with looks only its mother could love . I adore the original Elan, and it is to my eternal regret that I didn’t own one . I love the fact that it can make even a Mk 1 MX 5 look a bit porky by comparison .

[ast]

Some more colour on this. It seems that Fiat may be looking to bail out of the 124 when they can.

The Fiat 124 Spider may not be long for this world

Spider sharing a name with a 1960s classic and most of its chassis and interior with the iconic, excellent Mazda MX-5, it could be on its last legs.

In fact, since the latest efficiency regulations came into force, the 1.4-litre turbocharged roadster hasn’t even been on sale in the UK.

TopGear.com asked Fiat’s marketing chief Francois Olivier what the future holds for the likeable 124 Spider, which has only been on the market since 2016. He slightly dodged the question, reporting instead how the current one is selling. Here’s the glass half-full and half-empty verdict…

“I think it’s a niche market,” Olivier explains. “124 does well… it’s the second-best seller in its category in Europe after the MX-5. On the one hand, that’s really good. It’s more than the BMW Z4, it looks good on the ranking. On the other hand, it’s not a lot of cars. That’s the paradox of the 124 Spider. This niche is so small now.”

Is it a profitable one, TG probed? “It is profitable, thanks to the fact it’s a joint venture with Mazda. Otherwise it would not be profitable. This is, for sure, not the future of the brand.”

“[Sports cars] are great opportunities that you grab”, he continued. “They add cool factor to the brand, and they fit well with Abarth. But it is not the future. It’s one opportunity that’s good for us, but it’s not what I’d call a pure, absolute Fiat.”

Francois then cantered off on a slightly bizarre monologue about how happy he is that Sting and Shaggy featured the Abarth 124 Spider in a recent music video, referring to Shaggy as “his brother”.

Sorry Shaggy, but not enough people lover-lover the 124 Spider to make it worth Fiat’s while, it seems.

So, no expected successor to the 124; its not fitting with how FCA expects Fiat to develop.

[Thatbeetle]

Not surprising really. Overpriced, overstyled and underpowered for what is a small convertible. 

When i first saw the Abarth version I was mildly excited until i saw it has a 1.4T unit in the front with 160bhp, just imagine driving that and you get a 500 abarth blast your door mirrors off and leave you for dead. The 500 sounds phenomenal for a little hot hatch and goes some as well but the 124 just sounds flat.

But where they really went wrong is to call it the 124 and try and tie it into what is one of the prettiest cars ever made whereas they made a really ugly pastiche instead.  I’ve seen a few on the road and you can’t call them pretty by any stretch.

[Countryboy]

@Thatbeetle

Not surprising really. Overpriced, overstyled and underpowered for what is a small convertible. 

When i first saw the Abarth version I was mildly excited until i saw it has a 1.4T unit in the front with 160bhp, just imagine driving that and you get a 500 abarth blast your door mirrors off and leave you for dead. The 500 sounds phenomenal for a little hot hatch and goes some as well but the 124 just sounds flat.

But where they really went wrong is to call it the 124 and try and tie it into what is one of the prettiest cars ever made whereas they made a really ugly pastiche instead.  I’ve seen a few on the road and you can’t call them pretty by any stretch.

  

Sums it up perfectly!

[Chris_Phillips]

OK, so here’s a thought, perhaps a bit out of left-field, perhaps not: Imagine if you will, maybe in five years time, the MX-5 NE model looking suspiciously like the Fiat 124 Spider, but with the ND Skyactive engine in it, or then again perhaps a Hybrid propulsion system !  Mazda, having built the 124, on the ND floor-pan, could conceivably retain the tooling etc, and make use of it to help cut the cost of developing the new model.

[martin]

@Chris Phillips

OK, so here’s a thought, perhaps a bit out of left-field, perhaps not: Imagine if you will, maybe in five years time, the MX-5 NE model looking suspiciously like the Fiat 124 Spider, but with the ND Skyactive engine in it, or then again perhaps a Hybrid propulsion system !  Mazda, having built the 124, on the ND floor-pan, could conceivably retain the tooling etc, and make use of it to help cut the cost of developing the new model.

I think we’d notice! 

 

[Countryboy]

By then I’d be 80+ y.o.a. with one, maybe two, by then “classic” ND’s so I’d make snide comments about it, a bit like some owner’s of earlier models did about the ND when that appeared.

[ast]

@Chris Phillips

OK, so here’s a thought, perhaps a bit out of left-field, perhaps not: Imagine if you will, maybe in five years time, the MX-5 NE model looking suspiciously like the Fiat 124 Spider, but with the ND Skyactive engine in it, or then again perhaps a Hybrid propulsion system !  Mazda, having built the 124, on the ND floor-pan, could conceivably retain the tooling etc, and make use of it to help cut the cost of developing the new model.

“Imagine if you will” was the opening line to the Twilight Zone…

I suspect FCA will retain intellectual property rights to its Dodge Fiat roadster. Given that FCA’s effort originally started out as an Alfa Romeo, I have a feeling the outer panels were a relatively minor element of the overall cost of development. Within a few months of declaring that Alfa Romeo will never be foreign made, FCA had knocked up the 124 body. Hybrid technologies were an interim solution, not long term. In 5 years, if there is a NE, it will be all electric. Giving evolving CAFE and other similar regulations, a low volume MX5 will be essential in bringing down the average emissions of Mazda’s model range, as it pins its hopes to “Skyactiv”. Might even be a loss leader.

 

If Mazda found it essential to have an outside partner to develop the relatively conventional ND MX5 (there’s no real ground breaking new technology in it, its USP is the continuance of the gram-strategy), what next for the NE? I suspect that, in overall terms, the MX5 was cheap to develop, compared to, say, the Mazda3, which exists in a much more competitive market (in a sense, the only reason Mazda had to redesign was regulatory requirements, as the MX5 has no competitors). Mazda doesn’t have its own hybrid technology; it tried years ago, and the NC was supposed to be a hybrid. In the end, Mazda has gone the easy route and licensed Toyota’s now, quite old, technology. The MX5 has always been, to an extent, a parts bin car, because that keeps it affordable. There was always something in the storeroom that Mazda could repurpose, sprinkle some pixie dust on, to fit the Miata mould. With the next generation, what is there going to be; the MX5 was never about showcasing new technologies that then cascade through the Mazda range. Skyactiv was rolled out on the Mazda3 first.

 

Could essentially a Prius drive train really form the basis for a MX5. No, and probably there is not a lot Mazda could do with it within the scope of any Tech Transfer agreement with Toyota. I have a feeling, if Mazda is to bring out a NE, that they will partner up with someone who already has the drivetrain technology, but in a more exotic (lower volume) format (ie. a MX5 provides the volume to return investment on this technology), or someone who has the capital, and might possess a heritage brand, but who has lost the technical capability to be innovative in this field (ie. the MX5’s role is flipped, and it provides the halo effect to help the credability of the fallen heritage brand). EV is fast evolving, both technically, and in social acceptance. In 5 years time, the youngest Baby Boomer will be 60 years old, so the marketing focus switches to Generation X’ers; broadly those born between 1965 and 1980. I’ll leave it to others to speculate on the fallen heritage brand that has an eye on the sportscar market.

[Thatbeetle]

@martin

@Chris Phillips

OK, so here’s a thought, perhaps a bit out of left-field, perhaps not: Imagine if you will, maybe in five years time, the MX-5 NE model looking suspiciously like the Fiat 124 Spider, but with the ND Skyactive engine in it, or then again perhaps a Hybrid propulsion system !  Mazda, having built the 124, on the ND floor-pan, could conceivably retain the tooling etc, and make use of it to help cut the cost of developing the new model.

I think we’d notice! 

 

That and the only real difference between the MX and 124 are the engine, gearbox, bonnet, wings, bumpers and lights. Why would you make it uglier? 

 

[Chris_Phillips]

@Thatbeetle

@martin

@Chris Phillips

OK, so here’s a thought, perhaps a bit out of left-field, perhaps not: Imagine if you will, maybe in five years time, the MX-5 NE model looking suspiciously like the Fiat 124 Spider, but with the ND Skyactive engine in it, or then again perhaps a Hybrid propulsion system !  Mazda, having built the 124, on the ND floor-pan, could conceivably retain the tooling etc, and make use of it to help cut the cost of developing the new model.

I think we’d notice! 

 

That and the only real difference between the MX and 124 are the engine, gearbox, bonnet, wings, bumpers and lights. Why would you make it uglier? 

 

  

 

Ah, you see there is the rub.

The ND is an acquired taste as it is - a sort of Marmite car.  To my eyes the 124 would have been quite attractive, if it had not been for the hideous double grilles on the nose.  A year or so back, some clever member had a go with the 124’s front end in Photoshop, and I thought it looked much better then.

As they say though, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[MasterFrodo]

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the 124 looks fantastic, and actually better than the mx5 - maybe its the retro look I like. From the reviews, the mx5 is the more exciting car to drive, but the 124 is more forgiving on bumps, and for everyday driving is the better drive. I haven’t driven one, so I don’t know. 

[NickD]

@MasterFrodo

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the 124 looks fantastic, and actually better than the mx5 - maybe its the retro look I like. From the reviews, the mx5 is the more exciting car to drive, but the 124 is more forgiving on bumps, and for everyday driving is the better drive. I haven’t driven one, so I don’t know. 

I think from sales that your beholding eye seems very much in the minority. 

Personally for me, I think the Fiat styling is very clumsy to the point of being amateur. It is not a coherent look.  I suspect the main reason however is the MX-5 is known and actually has pedigree as being a fun sports car. The Fiat however strayed into the grown up Z4 demographic and has not worked out.   

[ast]

@NickD

@MasterFrodo

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the 124 looks fantastic, and actually better than the mx5 - maybe its the retro look I like. From the reviews, the mx5 is the more exciting car to drive, but the 124 is more forgiving on bumps, and for everyday driving is the better drive. I haven’t driven one, so I don’t know. 

I think from sales that your beholding eye seems very much in the minority. 

Personally for me, I think the Fiat styling is very clumsy to the point of being amateur. It is not a coherent look.  I suspect the main reason however is the MX-5 is known and actually has pedigree as being a fun sports car. The Fiat however strayed into the grown up Z4 demographic and has not worked out.   

 

And maybe the 124 wasn’t the iconic sportscar Fiat thought it was, especially as it shared the same model designator with the 124 Saloon, later to become the Lada Riva.

[John_Aston]

In period , the 124 was a cracking car, especially the ‘T’ model with twin cam. Lada made Fiat licensed copies long after the 124 was obsolete . Ditto the 125…

[Thatbeetle]

@NickD

@MasterFrodo

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think the 124 looks fantastic, and actually better than the mx5 - maybe its the retro look I like. From the reviews, the mx5 is the more exciting car to drive, but the 124 is more forgiving on bumps, and for everyday driving is the better drive. I haven’t driven one, so I don’t know. 

I think from sales that your beholding eye seems very much in the minority. 

Personally for me, I think the Fiat styling is very clumsy to the point of being amateur. It is not a coherent look.  I suspect the main reason however is the MX-5 is known and actually has pedigree as being a fun sports car. The Fiat however strayed into the grown up Z4 demographic and has not worked out.   

Don’t forget that the GT spec car starts at £34k!!! For a 170bhp, manual roof convertible. For that money you’re into German car territory so you’ve got to really love that retro rally look to get one.