To quote Sgt. Major Williams from âIt ainât half hot Mumâ - " Oh dear, what a pity, never mind". Â
PS: In a thread 5 months ago I said that based on the worldwide sales figures the days of the 124 were numbered.
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Ive just got off the phone to Richard Hardie cancelling a 124 Lusso Plus ordered for April delivery.Ive seen a 2013 SLK 250 AMG Sport that i fancy instead.They have no knowledge of this and as far as they are aware cars ceased coming to the uk until the new units met new emissions regulations (April 2019).Oddly this may be true as i had no objection when i asked for my £500 deposit back.
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Thatâs rather a shame. Whatâs more of a shame is that they didnât do what the initial rumours suggested and bring it out as an Alfa. Just imagine, the looks of an Alfa and the performance and reliability of an ND. Bringing it out as a Fiat was never going to be a good idea, and insisting on putting their old engine in was an even bigger mistake.
Glad you came away unscathed!
Oddly they are talking about this on the Spider UK forum.General thoughts are no way would Mazda let that happen.At the moment they have no competition to worry about.What would of happened if the spider had the ND unit in it? Donât think Mazda would of let that happen in a million years either.
I think youâre right. Theyâd have been mad to. I must confess Iâm not particularly an ND fan. Far too modern and sophisticated for me (Hardened NA owner here )
If it looked like an Alfa thoughâŚ
That was never going to happen, the Alfa bosses said âAll Italian or Noâ. So âNoâ it was.
Always bound to happen. I wouldnât be surprised to learn that Fiat wasnât making a penny on every single âstandardâ 124, and was only making any kind of money on the blinged Abarth model (where they are adding most value, hence the desperate attempts to launch a hardtop version (ie. Fiat made the hardtop themselves).
Running the numbers, not including Japan sales, over the same period, since 124 launch;
US:
124: Sales are declining at a CAGR of -2%
MX5: Sales are declining at -0.6%
Europe:
124: Sales are increasing at 1.4%
MX5: Sales are increasing at 0.9%
European demand for these convertibles is probably going to be as good as its going to get; there is an expected downturn in the European economies.
The peak production, in terms of 124 % of total ND/124 platforms, was in October 2016, when 124 production hit 50% of US/Europe production (sales). Since then it has declined to 26%.
Revenue and profit is harder to estimate. Fiatâs margin will be much lower than Mazdaâs, because Fiat has to pay Mazda to build the cars, including fitting the Fiat engine (this engine will be more costly than the Mazda engine, since it has to be shipped from Italy, plus it has more parts (turbo)).
If you consider Fiat as a customer of Mazda (Mazdaâs annual report refers to customer contracts, but doesnât put a number to that (they do a bunch of work for lots of manufacturers)), then that revenue is pure gravy (as long as building 124s doesnât deprive Mazda of line capacity to build Mazdaâs with a higher margin than the MX5), Mazda is taking in 5x the gross profit compared to Fiat. Fiat is making (gross) about $21m pa off the 124. As a group, FCA reports revenues of $132bn, with gross margins of 15% or so. I expect 124 sales outside of US/Europe to be negligible.
Mazda can grow revenues by more easily adding a new variant (eg. the RF). Fiat canât; its GT is unconvincing as a coupe (permanent hardtop). This is very important; there is a reason Mazda are pushing the RF at every opportunity. They need the MX5 to reach beyond the traditional MX5 buyer. Its been clear for years that the market for roadster buyers, at this price point, is tapped out. No one else is interested in moving into that segment, as there arenât enough sales. VW discounted it, as they stated they needed 40,000 sales just to break even. MG seems intent on releasing an ever complex range of SUVs (the latest being a seven seater). Fiat canât build a coupe or targa version.
We donât know the full details of the Mazda-FCA contract, what are the exit terms:
Is Fiat committed to a certain volume of cars to be built
Is the cost to Fiat based on per car built, or is there also an additional fixed cost
The agreement was intended to cost-share development costs. Are these development costs now covered, or will Fiat face an exit cost?
The BBC are claiming the arrest of Carlos Ghosn is an internal coup by Nissan board members who were against a Renault merger. Does this indicate a souring in Japanese board rooms for foreign cooperative agreements, and does this have any implication for Mazda-FCA, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere beyond the MX5-124. When does Mazda judge that building Fiats is not to its advantage?
The emissions angle may have a degree of truth. Jaguar has recently abandoned the XJ V8, because it canât get it through new emissions standards.
Well, Mazda and FCA originally signed an agreement to build an Alfa Romeo variant, and that was announced publicly. It was the head of FCA who later decided that Alfa Romeos would not be built in Japan (note, Alfa Romeos used to be built in a variety of places including South Africa, Brazil, and even Malaysia). Heâs dead now. Was the reasoning really jingoistic? A product road map was leaked that pointed to a future FCA-developed RWD roadster. Could it have been possible that FCA underestimated or misunderstood the Skyactiv concept, where weight is minimized, at the expense of strength (Mazda did not utilise bonded or riveted alumnium construction in the same way as Lotus/Audi/Jaguar. The car is still conventionally constructed, with aluminium substituting for steel on some panels, and things like bolts being made smaller. FCA want to move Alfa Romeo up market. I suspect that a Mazda-based Duetto would have been a V6, with a ÂŁ40-50k price tag. But a lightweight Skyactiv body structure might not have been able to convey the quality feel needed at that price point, when it would have been up against cars with much more innovative construction technologies. Mazdaâs Skyactiv approach is a way to say on weight without employing anything too exotic.
Why Alfa Romeo dumped the MX-5 Alfa Romeo has revealed why it broke-up with Mazda and dumped its MX-5-based roadster project onto sister brand Fiat. The Italian car maker announced in 2013 a joint venture deal to use the Japanese brandâs latest-generation drop-top as the basis for a new-age Alfa Spyder roadster. But it has already pulled the plug on the deal and handed the program over to Fiat to complete, rumoured to revive its iconic 124 Spyder nameplate as the first spy shots of it surfaced last week. Why? The MX-5 was not Italian enough and too small, according to the companyâs design chief Lorenzo Ramaciotti. âWe made an agreement with Mazda to use their platform to create a sports vehicle and this was done before the new strategy was made for Alfa Romeo,â Ramaciotti told Drive after the reveal of the all-important new Giulia in Milan last week. "One of the key points for the new strategy is that Alfa Romeo will be made in Italy because it is an Italian project and we want to export it to the world. We want to keep very strong Italian roots. "At this moment the use of a platform that has been developed elsewhere, and because the car would be manufactured outside of Italy, was the main point in deviating from this project. âTo be very fair, the vehicle is also very small for what we would like as an Alfa sports car. Mazda went in a direction going smaller as they were chasing a strategy of downsizing, but without too much power in the engine and to reduce the size of engines. It is not that kind of fit for the power and presence we wanted for Alfa.â The quick change of plan highlights just how recent it was that Alfa Romeo locked down the full scope of its revival plan. But Ramaciotti admits there wonât be too much of a delay in creating a halo performance model to fill the void, where it would succeed the hard-core 4C as the companyâs flagship sports car. âToday we now have a platform that would be much better suited to this type of car,â he said referencing the Giuliaâs larger rear-drive underpinnings and Ferrari-powered drivetrain. The man in charge of the MX-5, Nobuhiro Yamamoto, responded and said he wasnât disappointed with the change in strategy, claiming that either way benefits the Japanese brandâs bottom line. âWe have no disappointment for MX-5 program at all. But it is very important to Mazda for join Fiat for business,â he said. âThis is a Mazda and we are proud of our car, and the Fiat demonstration is up to them. It will also be exciting Iâm sureâÂ
With the New Z4 coming on line and the Current Mx5 being a thing of fun and beauty in my eyes. I donât think it will be much of loss.
BuzyG - completely agree.
I for one hope the FIAT 124 Spider is not dead. I took one for a test drive before Christmas and liked it. Despite a little turbo lag it had impressive performance. Coming from a mk2 mx5 I found it quite a large car, so decided it wasnât for me. Maybe itâs something I could have got used to. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the design and styling are more appealing than the mk4 mx5 to my eyes. If it does bite the dust then there will be less choice for prospective buyers of these type of cars. I for one hope that FIAT overcome the emissions issue (assuming this is one of the reasons behind the withdrawal) so that we can continue to see this spectacular looking sports car on our roads.
I am allergic to most cars which plunder the past in a misguided attempt to add glister to a new model . The 124 Spider epitomises why the approach is flawed as it is an inelegant parody of what was a very pretty car in period . Add in a comically flatulent exhaust note , excessive overhangs and fussy detailing and you end up with a car that still looks fun but could , and should , have been so much better .
Fiat did a better job with the Cinquecento homage but their bravest , and best , designs since the original 124 were the brilliantly utilitarian Giugiaro designed Panda in 1980, and the sublime (if opinion dividing )Chris Bangle designed Fiat Coupe of 1993. Neither owed anything to the past - and neither does an ND MX5 .
I might acknowledge a small nod to the Z4 and a bigger one to the TVR Tamora thoughâŚ,
And the F-Type and the Ferrari California, from a distance, squinting, in bad light;)
I like the look of the 124 as far as it goes, but there are some clumsy bits. And I wouldnât want the engine. Shame itâs gone, although the âArbroathâ is still with us for now. They are even more flatulent.
Had one of those original Pandas. The Super model with a proper radiator grille rather than a slotted metal panel plus twin sunroofs. Almost like having a convertible. Some brilliant design features. The front seats could slide all the way off the runners. Made cleaning the interior an absolute doddle. Also they made brilliant picnic chairs. The back seat could be attached in two alternative positions so you could either have extra rear legroom or extra luggage space. Didnât take a lot to make the inside rear wheel lift when cornering but still handled better on three wheels than a Reliant. Yes a bit basic but practical, reliable and fun.
Bit premature to say any car is âDeadâ, the 124 has been withdrawn from the UK market only, not world wide. I canât see Fiat abandoning the brand, or the market, regardless of downturns currently in the latter.
The loyalty of MX5 owners is plain enough, but competition between brands should be encouraged, not disparaged, if no-one competes there are no visible signs of improvement in any other brand. whether itâs design, spec. or price. The big bad bear syndrome springs to mind.
It also says you can still get the Abarth version