Hoping to get a load of input on my 2017 ND RF Launch edition.
I’ve had it 5 or 6 years now and its my daily driver, though I dont drive daily at all.
The time has come to dump money into it making it more fun. I’ve been debating these options:
BBR GTI Tubrocharger Stage 1, or BBR GTI Supercharger Stage 2.
I’ve had people tell me to go the Turbo route, its cheaper for the same power, decent delivery with the twin scroll and less to go wrong?
What would everyone here recommend on this? Love to hear some opinions.
More so I’m going to do the brakes with the Big Brembo kit most likely (front).
The Suspension though causes me worry - I’m a novice at car mods and honestly I’ve no idea whats best to do for the suspension.
Mine has the Bilstein dampners out the factory, so I could go simply with the Eibach lowering springs from Mazda (not from Mazda but their offering).
I could go with BBRs offering of Koni shocks and their springs.
For the Same money I can get BC racing RS Coilovers
I’ve also had people mention talk about Ohlins which are a lot more money, also mention Mazda MX5 ND Nitron NTR1 suspension which is expensive as the Ohlins, and MeisterR also turn up in conversation?
It’s a daily driver but I want to make the ride better than it is now as its stock dumpy rolly, but I’d like to do some road trips and even take it for some track days. It doesnt need to be peak performance but I’d like some capability in the end.
Some youtube channels i see frequently opt for the BC racing coilovers? (AutoAlex?)
Opinions?
Thanks for reading, hoping to meet some of you at future gatherings and continue to make continual upgrades as its currently stock/original.
My current niggle is the ring clip the bolt goes through to secure the bumble has broken off, this must have been before i bought it, and over time has become more pronounced as it drifts from the car due to being unsupported.
Need to fashion some way to repair to make a new loop/hoop for it or I dont know what, new bumper? ouch.
I have exactly the same car can’t comment on the power upgrades, but will be very interested in the final decision, as for the suspension, last year I went with the Eibach springs as fitted by Mazda, I think they are great for general/fast road use, probably the cheapest option and a significant upgrade to the standard ride in my opinion, the car also looks much better 30mm lower.
It’s a slippery slope going with mods and keeping your vehicle flexible and one really has to know ones priorities and then go with the limitations they impose.
I not only use my nbfl for touring and occasional track days but I also like to compete in hillclimbs and sprints up to ten times a year.
So on one end of the scale I can rationalise going all in with ohlins then either throttle bodies, supercharger or turbocharger but if I go that route I am running modified road going in competition so a roll bar and four point harness become mandatory. I might then have a quick car but one that is totally unsuited to doing John O’Groats to Lands End or vice versa in a day which is the kind of thing I do most weekends when I am not competing or doing track days.
In the end I have settled for running unmodified in competition, I might up grade the shocks and springs to non adjustable Bilstein to make the suspension a little stiffer but certainly no lower so that I can continue to run unmodifiied and settle for finding the real speed within that combination while at the same time being able to enjoy a comfortable ride when on tour round our fair Isles and beyond.
so lucky he is 10mins from me (and cobra motorsport who will likely be the ones to provide a silly exhaust from)
I’ve had my car with him twice already, once to fix the drivers window pully mechanism which ate itself and shredded the cable (replaced) shocking for a car thats not that old.
And embrassingly, when cleaning the car i moved the drivers seat right to the front and it got stuck there. Comedy driving the car to him with my knees infront of the wheel… lucky its literally 10mins away via industrial estates. A rogue 5p had gotten in the runner and jammed when the seat ran over it. Seat had to be removed to get it out. CHANGE IS BANNED FROM THE CAR.
My fear, is he would tell me to not go forced induction, I think when I spoke to him before he wasnt keen on it. Though I suspect I’ll be asking him to do a number of bits for me when it comes to fitting so sooner or later i need to make that call… I certainly wont be doing any of the work on the suspension myself, and I dont see me doing the brakes either.
The harness is interesting point. The seats are really rather loverly Recaro Alcantera, I would not be planning to replace them.
See Roddisons as others suggest re mods power upgrades. He did my last NC (suspension) and the current NC’s power and suspension mods.
In Sheffield too you have Deepcar autobodies who I’ve seen are highly recommended in the past. It looks like you need some plastic weld and a small amount of paint to rectify that bumper.
Drive both first if you can. I would hope that BBR can help you with that, via a demo car or otherwise.
It depends what you want out of the car and what problems or issues you have on its current setup.
My ND1 is a BBR Super 200 car. I also have Wilwood four piston brakes up front. I started out with BBR’s springs on Bilstein shocks (my car is a Sport Recaro so it came with those shocks). One of my shocks let go and it didn’t look like the BBR springs sat perfectly on the Bilsteins (and at least one more was looking tired anyway) so I changed to MeisterR ZetaCRD coil overs all round. I’m very happy with it. I have Eibach ARBs as well.
I think once you start modifying the car it becomes very individual. I wanted to stay naturally aspirated so although it was comparatively expensive for less power, Super 200 was the upgrade for me.
From what I’ve read on here, though, Paul is definitely worth talking to. I am sure he can advise on suspension and alignment as well so make that your first stop.
Gave him a call.
I think im going to get the suspension done and brakes (they are due) at the same time. Gives me more time to muse on the power consideration.
Most likely opt for this unless someone comes out of the woodwork to tell me im making a terrible mistake…
and now looking at MeisterR ZetaCRDs for the suspension.
Speaking from experience here (BBR turbo owner with MeisterR GT1s, Wilwoods & Eibach anti-roll bars), if it is a daily driver (albeit you don’t drive daily).
I would seriously recommend staying on the Bilsteins and adding the 30mm Eibach Pro Lowering Springs. Coilovers will be a harsher ride for sure and I’d argue in most scenarios on the road you don’t feel the benefit over a decent set of lowering springs. If the springs aren’t hardcore enough for you, upgrade the anti-roll bars too.
Either going to Paul for his remap / manifold combo to get the most power out you can going that route, or going for the BBR 200 kit.
Now, I’m sure if you’ve had a conversation with Paul already he will have shared his own view of BBR. But in my opinion you take your chances dealing with BBR as it can be a very problematic experience. Like me you are also similarly a long distance away from them, I’ve done almost 1,000 miles travelling back and forth to resolve issues and more recently I’ve had to replace a coolant hose neither of which I was compensated for (even when its been their fault). I am not unique in this experience, its happened to others too and I knew that going into it but if you want forced induction on an ND there is no alternative.
Also, if you go down the route of forced induction, be prepared for potential additional costs such as an uprated clutch which can add considerable cost to an already expensive upgrade. I’d argue the turbo kit is also a rather complicated setup, you have numerous taps into coolant lines, the oil return into the sump plug which I have seen many people in the US have issues with and have had no choice to go on and get an additional plug welded in to the sump for a dedicated line (in my opinion this should be the way it is done by BBR but it saves time and money, so far I’ve not needed to do this but do expect to have to in the future). It is also a VERY hot setup and creates a lot of additional under bonnet heat, its for these reasons I don’t recommend going for anything other than the 200 kit. Sure, you get bigger power but the additional costs, concerns and potential issues IMHO are not worth it.
Going forward I am looking at fitting an oil cooler and possibly some form of other cooling i.e. bonnet vents all of which wouldn’t be necessary running the 200 kit. I have this year upgraded the radiator (following a coolant hose issue caused by BBR)
In terms of suspension I would consider the Koni dampers and BBR/Eibach springs with Eibach anti-roll bars. This set up is ideal for road use and maybe the occasional forays on track. Coilovers tend to have firm springs which is great for the track but on our current British roads not so good giving a very firm ride and I have experience of both.
For brakes I went with Wilwood 6pot Dynapro calipers and GWR 12.88 discs which are lighter than the oem setup.
For engine tuning I had the BBR ND1 Super 200 and full exhaust system which gives a useful increase in power (another 50hp in my case).
Bilsteins and Eibach lowering springs is a popular option, but personally I don’t find the MeisterR ZetaCRDs harsher than the Bilsteins were with BBR’s springs. If anything the ZetaCRDs feel more composed, which I prefer. I do have mine set on the softer side, though, and haven’t played around with the adjustment yet.
I find my GT1s pretty hardcore, Neil at BBRGTI has driven mine and commented that they are much more capable and composed than the CRDs (MeisterR themselves say anything a CRD does the GT1 basically does better). For me, they are fine but mine is purely a weekend toy, I don’t recommend them for anything other than a weekend toy or track car.
I have the MeisterR GT1 and they use the same springs as the CRD. I changed from Koni dampers and BBR springs and the GT1s are definitely a lot firmer (I take mine to the track). You can change the damper settings but the springs are still very firm and in my view still too firm for every day road use.
Thanks team, this is really useful.
Given I have Paul on my doorstep and he knows his way around the Meister CRDs I think im happy to go down that route.
Given your experiences, would you go with the Manifold and ECU tinkering from A or the super 200 from B if you could do it again?
Btw- if anyone knows, the Brembos that come on the 30th aniversary edition and such, are they compatable with ND1s, and/or with the 17" BBS wheels? they are 4 piston jobbies?
FWIW (I know that you were asking @GarethC), if I were to start over with my car I would order any parts I wanted from BBR that I couldn’t get elsewhere and then have someone local do the fitting, tuning, and any ongoing work. A local to me OC member (Paul White) that runs his own business working as a mechanic (and helpfully also has an ND Sport Recaro) now works on my car and he’s excellent.
can’t comment on the power upgrades, but will be very interested in the final decision, as for the suspension, last year I went with the Eibach springs as fitted by Mazda, I think they are great for general/fast road use, probably the cheapest option and a significant upgrade to the standard ride in my opinion, the car also looks much better 30mm lower.
