What Replacement Engine Do i Have?

Technical Area Engine, Transmission, Exhaust etc
2

 Hi Guys,

Thought i’d put this out there and see if anyone can shed any light on this.

Following quite a tale of woe and a rather “rocky” start to life with a 5, i have bought a replacement engine for my Eunos Roadster V Special Type II.

I bought the engine from API Engines on the understanding that it was from a JDM Roadster and had convered less than 50,000Km.

My Garage have informed me that the engine i have received has the EGR Valve on the Inlet manifold, needed the throttle body swapped and came from a car that did not have air conditioning. Now as most JDM cars seem to come with Air con, and the EGR valve i think is UK specific (thanks AT) i think that i may have been sold an engine from a UK market car.

My Car has the VIN No. NA8C100559 and i believe was one of the first 1.8’s produced in November 1993. 

My original engine was: BP696906

The Replacement Engine is: BP268362

I have asked Mazda UK to look into this, but i was wondering if anyone out there might be able to shed any light on this? I am most concerned that API have not been completely on the level about the origin and condition of the engine and that it may even be a different variant of the 1.8 to my original one.

One of the things that sparked my concern with API was that they have given me a 3 month warranty rather than their standard 6 month warranty. They have also requested, on the invoice, the p/x of the original unit - which was not the case when i bought and paid for the engine. I have e-mailed API twice regarding this and had no response. I am waiting until i can verify the source of the engine before i phone them.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Rich

3

No help I’m afraid but this VIN was built 4th August 1993.

4

 I’ve just about given up on ever actually finding out the origin of my new engine. API have been spectacularly unhelpful, although they have agreed to extend the warranty on the engine to 6 months / 6000 miles claiming that it was mistakenly put as 3 months / 3000 miles. Simon at API promised me the import documents relating to the engine that would at the very least identify the car the engine came from and the mileage - however after some reeat requests i receivd a new invoice in the post along with compliment slip saying the engine mileage cannot be exactly verified BECAUSE IT IS AN IMPORTED ENGINE but they assure me it has covered less than 50,000km…Now, given that i chose API specifically BECAUSE they specialise in imported engines (with supposedly low mileages) from Japan that statment is particularly partonising to me. 

They promised to let me have proof of mileage so that if i sell the car i can show prospective buyers, but they have not done so. 

It has occured to me that trading standards might be interested in a company that sells engines proclaiming them to be under 50,000km but have no way of actually backing up that claim with hard evidence. The engine turned up with a completely different setup to the one on My imported Eunost roadster so that set alarm bells ringing, i have been informed by Mazda UK that the new engine was not assigned to any specific car / region so i have no way of checking where the engine will have originated from. 

I do not believe that anyone should use API ENGINES http://apiengines.com/index2.php if they can source a decent engine elsewhere that has a verified mileage. I had other (cheaper) options and wish that i had saved myself £200-£300 by taking them up. They are NOT worth the premium.

5

 well , if your replacement engine came with egr valve fittings on the inlet manifold leading over to the exhaust manifold , then the engine is not from a japanese import . I suspect they have a uk car that they are breaking and decided to sell it to you.

The mileage is probably astronomical , hence the reason they are failing ( after repeat requests) to supply documented proof of mileage.

Regarding your warranty ,i think you will have the usual fob off if you ever need to use it… i suspect you would be better off pissing into the wind in this respect , just make sure you are wearing dark trousers :slight_smile:

6

You need to get the engine back to them and demand your money back. The goods are unfit for purpose so I’m sure you have rights under the various consumer legislation. Then contact Andrew at Autolink and get the right engine for your car

7

 I am not surprised; the whole issue of imported used parts is a bit of a shady area. I remember some former MX5 specialists importing cars cut up in Japan, because it was a bit of a tax scam (car parts attract less duty than a whole car). I don’t see how the engine is unfit for purpose, unless its not working. A UK-spec engine can be fitted to a Roadster and vice versa. A used engine is a used engine; a high mileage engine might be in as good condition as a low mileage engine, if the former has sat in Tokyo traffic jams all its life (my Roadster’s engine died at 180k kms, it had been using oil since about 80k kms). And low mileage engines (under 100k kms) from Mk1s are getting rare now, even in Japan; average annual mileage in Japan is about 10k kms, the youngest Mk1 is now 13 years old. If the OP has already incurred costs to date, in addition to the engine itself, I see little point in returning the motor, and getting another used motor from somewhere else. Get the garage to carry out a full set of compression checks I suppose; I don’t know if there is a way to test the headgasket without filling the waterways (some sort of pressurisation test?).

 

There doesn’t seem to be any sort of complaints about API as far as I can see; indeed, “David” at API seems to enjoy a similar reputation in the Subaru commun ity as Andrew at Autolinkuk.

 

For my used engine, after approaching the usual suspects (P5, Autolinkuk, Sam Goodwin), I decided to source an engine from a known source; the car it came from was known to me (in fact, most of its history, by various owners had been documented on UK and US forums). It had a repair history, but the repairs didn’t faze me, and I knew they had been done properly. Low miles; I probably paid more than average, but then, I was buying piece of mind. I knew the engine, and I knew the reason the donor vehicle had been written off. With scrapyard used engines, regardless of whether they are in UK, Japan, or China (as many of these “JDM” yards actually are), unless you personally inspect the engine, in the donor vehicle, running, you have no means are verifying the mileage, verifying the condition pre-removal,. verifying it has not suffered internal damage as a result of an accident, verified that the previous owner didn’t run it dry of oil/water/both. The only way you can remove doubt is to purchase a fully reconditioned engine, which are a lot more money. And there would even be an element of doubt with the known MX5 specialists, unless they were breaking their personal car. True, they can verify the condition of an engine on the day, they might have access to a history, more probably they won’t (how many MX5s going to the scrapper will have all that paperwork). They have no way of knowing if the engine will last 3 months, 6 months, a year or 10 years.

8

My point AT is, the op bought an engine, which was supposed to be a drop in replacement for the knackered engine in his 1993 Roadster, it patently isn’t. The fact that 1.8 engines “can” be fitted is surely irrelevant.

 

 

9

 My advice is this. If you paid via credit card then cancel the transaction and tell these jokers to come and collect it at their expense.

Condition is more important than milage, with modern synthetic oils and regular changes an engine with 100,000mls + can still be in very good order.

If you want a good engine then find a car about to be broken, probably on ebay, go and see it running in the car and check it out in-situ. Borrow a compression tester and insist the engine is cold when you arrive. That way you have some provenence that what you want is what you are buying.

If you draw a blank, send me a personal message, I just may have an 1840cc Eunos motor ready to view working, but you would need to be quick, its about to become my spareThumbs up

Dr. EunosGeek

10

 I think the point is that i haven’t got what i was after in terms of a validated engine that has a genuine (and proveable) low mileage.

I have spent alot of money having the new engine put in and it appears to be ok, albeit a little less eager than the old one, so i’m not about to take it out and have it done again!

I had various options when my old engine went bang, some of which included:

Autolink - they had 2 engines available being broken from cars - one with 80k and one with 90k. Given that the engine that went bang only had 72k on the clock i could not bring myself to put in a higher mileage unit on principle. One of those could have been had for £616.88 inc delivery - but i would have had a history record available to me.

Breakers yard had a 72k unit available from an insurance write-off for £311.00 inc delivery, however the warranty would only have been two months.

ebay - there was a 1.8 merlot being broken with a verifiable history - can’t remember the price, but it was cheap ish.

API were advertising imported engines with guaranteed mileages of less than 50k km (approx 31k miles) with 6 month 6k mile warranty, the price for these was £711.00 including delivery. I was assured that the engine would come with import docs proving the origin and mileage of the engine. 

I paid the extra to go with API in order to guarantee that i was getting an engine of quality with a low mielage - the fact that this now cannot be proved renders the additional cost pointless - regardless of whether the engine is ok. API also requested my old engine in exchange (something that i had not been informed of at the time of purchased - even though i asked the question as directed by my mechanic).

My issue is not that the engine is crap, it does not appear to have any issues (touch wood) aside from not being quite as eager as the original, my issue is that i paid extra for peace of mind and the ability to say to future owners (if i ever sell the car) that the engine i had put in was of the best quality and guranteed low mileage. Unfortunately i cannot say that to anyone with a degree of certainty. I am aware that API have a decent reputation with Subaru owners - that is why i chose them having done some research - but i expected more from them than they have provided having been given various assurances.

11

 

 

If the engine is already in, I doubt anyone but the OP is going to pick up the double labour bill. Engines aren’t merely drop-in, and in the context of what needs doing, undoing and refitting an inlet manifold is pretty superficial. If the car hasn’t yet been touched, thats a different matter.

12

 

 

They have you over a barrel. I suppose the best you can do is to chase up for damages reflecting the perceived difference in value between the low mileage, verified engine you wanted, and the unknown mileage engine you’ve ended up with. That might not be all that much, unfortunately.

 

Of course, they have, in the original sale contract, promised you full paperwork to accompany the engine, which you have not received. Give them the benefit of the doubt over the return of your old engine; its scrap after all. Are they paying for collection?  How much of the engine do they want? Strip off the head, camcover, inlet manifold (!) etc. I gave away my old motor to Autolink when I was done with it, minus the cylinder head. It was scrap to me. The paperwork they give you might well be meaningless anyhow.

13

 

Exactly, i would be the one picking up the bill!  

I know that API are in the wrong for misrepresenting their goods and that technically i could report them to trading standards for misleading me regarding the engine and what i could reasonably expect from them. But i could not afford to have everything taken out again and replaced on the off chance that another replacement would be better.

It is more the principle than anything, having been stiffed by the guy that sold me the car in the first place i’m generally hacked off that i haven’t had much good fortune with the subsequent engine supplier! The only thing i can rely on is the garage who fitted the new engine and all of the extra bits i had done at the same time, they were magnificent, despite my worrying and pestering (Pole Elm Garage if anyone is interested http://www.poleelmgarage.co.uk ). 

They tell me that the engine is ok as far as they can tell so that will have to do. I have had Mobil 1 0w 40 Fully synthetic Engine Oil put in, i have taken it easy for the first 800 miles and i put in a few tanks of Shell V power for good measure, i will get the oil changed and the car checked over 3000 miles from when the new engine went in and hope that everything will be ok.

I also had the car completely undersealed by Rust Less Ltd in Newcastle Under Lyme as i couldn’t face the thought of the car rotting away having spent the best part of £1900 having the engine replaced, new brakes, clutch, gearshift boots, various braces fitted, cambelt, water pump etc replaced. The car is now as good as i can afford to make it.

 

14

Truth be told, at this point i just want the weather to improve so i can go on my first ever track day with MOT and have some fun in my car.

Eventually i would like to get the suspension upgraded, a new exhaust sytem fitted and in time, put a supercharger on it to make it a bit more rapid!

Cosmetically a new interior carpet, seats and new hood as well as a complete respray would get the car where i want it to be.

It might take some time, but i just want to move on from the first few months of ownership and forget them really.

15

 You can get quite a bit of info for free by contacting your local Trading Standards. I had a bit of bother with a Cat-C car brought from a dealer, which had been misrepresented. The TS officer gave pragmatic advice; nothing specific, but essentially letting me know what it will cost if I chose to take this further, and balancing that against my perceived loss of value. In the end, I chose a non-legal approach, and got the garage in question to buy back my car for a value equivalent to what I expected the P/X value to be.

Is it possible to reproduce here what exactly API have said to you in any communication, prior to purchase? Might be someone here with the necessary experience to give better advice.

 

From their website:

 

[quote] API Engines Ltd. Has been established since 1985 and its owner, David O'Brien, has over 36 years motor trade and motorsport experience in the UK and over 19 years experience supplying engines for Japanese cars and vans. [/quote] [quote]

API Engines Ltd. Specialises in the supply of engines and transmissions for all types of Japanese cars and commercial vehicles.

Japanese domestic cars cover very low mileages in their life and are scrapped very early compared with UK & European cars. By selecting and buying engines from the best examples of life expired vehicles API is able to offer top quality engines and transmissions, which have many years of life left in them, at very competitive prices.

API is unique in the Japanese imported engine market in the UK by having it's own warehouse and staff in Japan collecting and testing the engines iBEFORE they are shipped.

By carefully evaluating and further testing the units that arrive at the UK head office in Warwickshire, API is able to offer peace of mind warranties and cost savings to any customer , trade or private.

API is the supplier of choice to many Franchised Dealers and Mechanical Breakdown Insurers and is renowned for its attention to quality and technical assistance.....

.....A Standard API Engine from Japan is one that will have covered less than 40,000 km's.

When the engines arrive at the UK `Hub' in Warwickshire, they are again, evaluated for quality and model variety before undertaking a series of tests including, hot running, oil pressure, compression, noise, emissions etc. They are then cleaned with a specially formulated degreaser and shrink wrapped onto a pallet to await distribution.

This is the `Standard' API engine unit and is offered with a 3 or 6 months parts only, Mastercover warranty.

Engines that fail test are assessed for suitability to either undertake a minor repair (head gasket failure, oil leaks, etc.) before being re-tested or they will be subjected to a full refurbishment programme, where they would be offered as a `Premier Engine'.

Most `parallel' or `grey' Japanese import vehicle engines are kept as regular stock at the Hub and API's experience can usually provide a positive answer to any enquiry.

Some petrol engines are sold on an exchange basis, unusually for this trade API, seeks no `Exchange Surcharge' but merely requests that the returned unit is clean, drained and complete

[/quote]

 

Does the wording say all their Standard engines are from Japan? Its a bit ambiguous, but the ambiguity is only obvious when you really think about it (its not immediately apparent to the casual reader).

 

As I expected, the standard Mastercover warranty only covers parts. But the wording on the website implies it is for imported engines. This is an insurance warranty? Who underwrites it? What would their response be to extending cover to used engines that cannot be independantly verified as being imported from a low mileage car in Japan? The difference in the engines, as I know it, extends to the difference in the inlet manifolds. Would your garage be willing to write up a report on the engine as received; could they comment on if it had been tampered with before receipt (ie. is it possible that someone at API has dressed it with UK-spec parts?) Unlikely, but maybe necessary to demonstrate.

This is a rather ironic thread:

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/dealer-and-third-party-supplier-queries-3/435915-anyone-used-engines-direct-rivermead-engineering-ltd.html

16

 

I only spoke to them over the phone in the first place, and then after talking with Simon at API i was not confident i would be supplied with the correct engine for my car (given the various revisions available) i got Colin at Pole Elm to talk them through what i needed to make sure we got an early 1.8. 

I saw that thread before i made my choice - it was actually one of the reasons i went with API.  A woman i spoke to at API told me that the invoice usually states the mileage, but the note i got in the post stated that as an import my engine cannot be verified - which seems odd as all of their engines are inmported.  I’m not saying that they don’t usually meet the standards they advertise (they may have lots of very happy customers), they just didn’t with me

I haven’t the desire or energy at the moment to get into a long running dispute with them, i just feel that it the issues i had should be in the public domain so that people can make an informed decision on using API in the future - i.e. ask for documents for the engine up front!

Thanks for taking the time to advise me on this. {#emotions_dlg.thumb}  I’m impressed by the generosity of the people on this forum - i’ve been offered a trackday ride in a car on Gaz suspension by Simon In Bridgend - who doesn’t know me from Adam - so i can make an informed choice on my suspension setup. I’m hoping to get along to various events next year and get into 5 ownership in a big way!  {#emotions_dlg.smile}