hard cornering issue

Technical Area Steering & Suspension
2

I have an issue that’s difficult to explain but here goes.

 

If i accelerate hard when in a bend (lets assume left), the car hunkers down and turns in left, whilst still on the gas it feels fine.

However, if i let off the accelerator, it sort of does like a little wiggle.

It’s hard to decscribe, it’s like the rear end is turning out a little, or maybe the front end is turning in a little more, it sort of does a little dive in to the left a little harder then settles out on it’s normal trajectory.

 

Maybe it’s body roll, or rear wheel drive with LSD.

Maybe the front end is coming up, while the rear end is digging in, and then it all settles out.

Maybe the sideways thrust of the engine is throwing the car off balance.

 

It’s difficult to explain.

 

 

It’s the same feeling in the opposite direction.

I don’t have to make any adjustments to the steering.

Drive it sensibly and it feels ok it’s only when going hard on and off the gas in a bend.

 

 

 

It never feels like it’s letting go, it just feels odd when it does this little wiggle thing.

I’m not a bonkers driver, i’m not driving on the limits, just having a bit of spirited fun.

 

It’s always done this in the 3 years I’ve owned it, despite 4 new tyres and recent 4 wheel alignment.

 

3

It’s simple, don’t lift off accelerator mid corner or bend. By lifting off you are causing oversteer, with a bit more speed and experience you could start drifting.

Have a read on this site:

http://www.drivingfast.net/oversteer/

4

 

 

Quite right.

If you are lifting off the throttle as you are going through a bend, it shows that you are feeling that you have entered the bend too fast, and are getting worried about losing it.  Actually, lifting off only makes things worse.

To drive fast through a bend, change down before the bend, and accelerate smoothly as you go round. 

 

5

As above. Also, you’ll find a HUGE improvement by fitting uprated anti roll bars and a full chassis bracing set. The difference is night and day with no loss of ride quality, in fact it’s better, more supple.

6

This adjustability is one of the beauties of the MX5 chassis and is a joy to exploit.

If you are concerned with the feeling then perhaps some reading up on how the physics of a car work may help. Manoeuvring 1000kg across a constantly changing surface via 4 very small contact patches is a complicated affair. Also consider some tuition, with a little help what now feels alien will become a source of pleasure and satisfaction.

7

I’ve never experienced this sensation in another car.

Although, most of my driving life has been FWD.

 

My MK2 Escort in the 80’s probably didn’t have enough power.

My Chrysler 300 6 years ago, was wallowy.

 

Every other car since or inbetween have been FWD.

 

Having read about lift off or snap oversteer, it makes sense.

8

its all about weight transfer, when you lift the weight transfers to the front wheels so the backend goes light and as such grip will be reduced. Its the classic way to set up a car in a drift; accelerate hard into a bend, then lift so the back end loses weight and has reduced traction, then put your foot down hard again so the lightened rear end with its reduced grip gets a sudden burst of power so that it breaks traction and the end slides out… (then the fun starts…)

as others have said its not the way to drive a RWD car fast or safely through a bend, its the complete opposite, as it will unsettle the car and risk loss of grip… 

9

Isn’t it funny to read Keat63 write that almost all of his cars have been front-wheel-drive ?

For someone of my age, having been brought up with the traditional British layout of front-engine, rear-wheel-drive (except BMC in the 1960s, who pioneered (in the UK) front-wheel-drive cars), it seems odd to hear someone tell that almost all his life he has driven cars that have been front-wheel-drive.  How times change, when now the traditional British layout is the exception and not the rule !

 

10

Aha, that explains why back in the late 1960s I could flick my old Mk2 Zodiac through the roundabouts on the A40 without dropping speed much.  According to my mate trying to keep up behind the Zodiac’s back end used to slide all over the place. (In those days there were four roundabouts from the Polish War memorial to Greenford and closing time in Marylebone was half an hour later than in Ickenham). I’m not saying it was good driving, but it was great fun, and I was young and stupid.

 

11

 

Yeah, usually on skinny crossply tyres 

12

I think you are feeling the warning signs of lift off over steer - the rear end getting lighter due to weight transfer and a slight grip reduction.

Well explained about 1/3 of the way down this page.

http://www.drivingfast.net/oversteer/

13

I’ve lost count how many cars I’ve had to be honest.

I took my test in 81.

My very first car being a Hilman Hanter was RWD, the MK2 Escort which followed was RWD, and then every other car from 1984 until 2010 were all FWD, including a whole host of company cars.

I’d a short spell with the Chrysler, before buying a FWD SUV in 2012.

The MX5 is just for fun.

 

I’ve probably had in my possession 25 cars over the years, only with the MX5 have I experienced this sensation.

14

.  FWD is the ideal tool to relatively safely exploit this phenomenon. I think you must be very conservative in your driving style to have never experienced this on FWD cars. A big lift on entry will tighten the line nicely and cancel any understeer thus allowing much wider throttle openings on exiting the bend.

There are more ways to ‘steer’ a car than by just using the ‘wheel’.

http://www.john-lyon.co.uk/. Have a think about this type of course to safely explore the full potential of your cars and yourself. Other course providers are available.

 

15

Hang on chaps. It might not be the OP’s driving style. My son’s Mk2 ‘S’ (limited slip diff) did this, too, when straightening up coming out of a corner. Mine doesn’t, it’s a standard 1.8 Mk2.

We fitted lowered coil overs to my son’s car and he had the alignment set up afterwards; this improved things and the “wiggle” went away.

Didn’t stop me doing a complete 360 spin coming out of the top corner at Curborough, though. But that was probably due to cold slick tyres on damp track in a turbo’d car with over 250 hp. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it…

Damn, he’s put me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWDtcmjdc-k

16

So does anyone else feel it. ?

I can feel it mildly when driving normally and say coming off a roundabout, changing gear.

 

17

 

I can feel it if I’m in a low gear, accelerating round a corner (pressing on a bit) and lifting off mid-corner. That being said, I’m perfectly aware that isn’t advisable so I tend to either stick in a higher gear or continue on unless entirely necessary.

I’m putting mine in part down to pretty shoddy tyres as to the extent in which I feel it. Also, I’m on stock suspension/ARBs but will be having both changed soon, 17" alloys instead of the 16" stock with new tyres, then full alignment, so hopefully will be able to give a more accurate description thereafter.

 

18

Many years ago when I was more sprightly and brave or foolish perhaps, I was a proud possessor of a Mini , on long bends such as you find on the A44 going over Eisteddfa Gurig coming out of Aberystwyth where I lived at the time I could steer the mini round the bend using the accelerator only, ,a practice which I came to enjoy and used for many years without mishap.

Your story jogs my memory and takes me back.

Gales.

19

That’s more like it, we have a ‘classic’ Mini and still partake in this joyful indulgence at every (safe) opportunity.

Left foot braking is not yet in the repertoire but when the opportunity to learn this art comes along I will grab it with both hands. Ooooooo see what I did then!!! 

20

I never mastered left foot breaking either, it did not seem natural to me as I didn’t seem have control over breaking pedal pressure, although I did master heel and toeing.
I did drive some early cars with crash boxes, no synchromesh and double declutching became second nature. I would like to see all F1 cars stripped of their automatic systems and fitted with crash boxes, that would sort the sheep from the goats.

I now drive much slower , I’m rapidly approaching 80 and my reactions and eyesight are not as good as they were, and you have to drive within your limits.

Unfortunately I think the standard of driving on the roads has deteriorated badly,over the years, I thinkThe lack of anticipation is appalling, Whatever happened to those magic words " WHAT IF".

I’ll Shut up now and go back to reading my favourite book , “The Sports Car” by Colin Campbell.

Cheers
Gales