HSD Dualtechs: Best coilover for fast B road use?

Technical Area Steering & Suspension
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Hi guys, 

As above, I’m in the market for some suspension upgrades shortly, I’ll be swapping over my 14inch Eunos alloys for some shiny Rota RB’s in 15x7 and want some suspension to go with it all that will allow me to extract the best out of the car when driving on B roads and from day to day. I also have to keep the Mrs happy and not snap her spine when we go over bumps, especially as I now have a decat and full stainless exhaust which she is just about putting up with! :P 

I’ve looked at all the reccomendations for coilovers, Meister R’s, BC Racing, Gaz Gold, HSD Monopro and HSD Dualtech and from what I can gather it sounds like the dualtechs might be the best option as being a dual design there is greater damper travel which should therefore make the car better for our sh*tty roads! The car is not a daily driver, however it’s not just for weekends either, we do do some commuting in the car and want to take some longer journeys in it, so I’m looking for more of a GT sort of experience (if that even is such a thing in a '5!?). I found the original suspension wallowy and jarring at the same time, and since I moved to some sparco springs it’s like driving a concrete bouncy castle floating on a sea of jelly! 

So, are the Dualtech’s better for comfort? I want to feel confident in driving the car quickly but safely on the road, I’m not planning on tracking the car, so I’m willing to sacrifice outright performance for tractability and confidence on the road. How do other coilovers actually compare to stock dampers and springs? Can they ever actually be comfortable, or is this all a relative thing? Also before you say I’m barking up the wrong tree and shouldn’t be considering coilovers, I am fully aware that a mk1 Eunos will never be “comfortable” I have a VW barge for that and it’s a piece of poo… I’m just asking about mx5 levels of comfort here, I am only 30 after all ;) 

Any suggestions and advice are thoroughly welcome! Over to you chaps & chapesses! 

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You will find that what ever brand a poster has is what they will favor. The biggest influence on ride will be the spring rate, and with most of these you can get choices. 

Gaz Goal Pro have sort of fallen out of favor because more forum points are gained by saying you have Meister and people will say they are poor quality, however I think they ride absolutely fine and remove the road jiggleless that was present in the older Gaz Nickel. Meister is also OK but in my view it is just suspension. Of all of the units HSD probably gets the worst press. Avoid cheap stuff, things like V Max, in my experience make the car feel like a cut and shut job. 

In my view Koni is one of the best, however you don’t get height adjustability like the others. 

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I have the Meisters Zeta-S, and don’t like them (too fidgety over a poor surface), but also have Puredrives, which just soak up the bumps, but alas, are no longer available. I fitted these in 2008, and have had the Protec shocks in the meantime built. In theory, I can continue getting the shocks rebuilt, every 7 years of so, for a very cost effective price ad infinitum (the cost of a rebuilt shock is about 50% of the cost of a brand new shock from Protec, and I get the benefit from any upgrades to internal components) . And you can do this for all the mainstream brands, be it Koni, Bilstein, Ohlins etc. The specialist I used tried rebuilding one of the new Chinese shocks (they may all come from the same factory), and reported that there was nothing to be done with these units. When they fail, you have to replace, there is no rebuild option. Of course the argument is that the units are so cheap, complete replacement is the most cost effective. But now that has gone; the CRD replaces the Zeta-S, and its a different shock. I guess Zeta-S replacements will be available for however long the reseller keeps in stock spare units. The Zeta-S lasted 5 years, which I suppose is the effective attention span for most MX5 owners, before they sell up and move to another marque. When one of my Zetas fail (and they will fail), I will have to replace all 4 shocks, springs and top mounts. I don’t think there is any compatibility with anything else. The replacement will be from someone like GAZ or Koni, or any company with proven long term commitment to products. I was fairly impressed when my specialist reported he had just completed a rebuild of 4 50 year old shocks (Konis) off a Lamborghini.

Ride height adjustment is over rated. Konis offer some adjustment during installation, and that’s the only time 99% of users will ever set height.

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It’s difficult sometimes to find a bad word about MeisterRs , whether it’s fear of going against the populist mantra or the simple fact that having spent all that money they’ve got to be good haven’t they. However I would agree that after 3 winters and just over 2 years of use the MeisterRs were fidgety over poor surfaces with traction being lost even on straight line acceleration due to I assume the rears skipping on undulating surfaces ( bearing mind that available rear suspension travel on these coilover designs is  limited), one damper appeared to be leaking, the dust boots no longer provided the protection they were designed for and the coil springs were rusting.

I 've since moved to a fixed ride height suspension with Koni dampers and my main concern of loss of rear traction on updulating surfaces has disappeared wether that’s due to a more reactive damper or increased rear suspension travel I’m not sure.

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I had a Koni set fitted with a moveable perch. Set at it’s lowest ride height it handled really well. Before going on a long trip down from UK to Malta I had a set of Mazda standard springs fitted and the ride height jacked up to cope with all the ferries. The car still handled well and the shocks were still A1 when I sold the car 40K miles later in Australia. Did a couple of low level track days and I had no problems with the setup whatsoever

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This is all fantastic feedback, thanks guys! It’s very refreshing to hear some honest and impartial advice on suspension, what with it being such a minefield of opinions and subjectivity. I’m intending on keeping my 5 for the rest of my life, I’ve already had her for 6 years so I want equipment that will last, so knowing that rebuilds and parts are available is a plus. At the minute my car is lowered by approximately 30mm, which I feel is about right, I may take it up a touch to about 28mm but I would want a lower ride height than stock as the car looks too high IMO. If I were to go with Koni shocks, what springs would be reccommended to go with to attain that sort of ride height? Are there any coilovers that could provide the level of comfort you get with the Koni’s but offer the ability to tweak damping and ride height? If so I’d be very interested to hear!

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I have Meister zeta S, put them on last year and were a dramatic improvement, then again I had knackered cusco adjustable shocks that may have been as old as the car (1994) so anything would have been an improvement.

 

I got them as they were on a group buy so good value, I was torn between  Gaz gold pro and the meisters, I preferred the fact that I didn’t have to crawl on the floor to adjust them.  Height adjustment seemed important at the time, something to do with corner weighting IIRC.

 

Any how when it is time to replace i will look again with an open mind , 5 years seems an ok lifespan if they last that long.

 

I also like the fact I can get in touch with the supplier on a forum, Jerrick and Edwin are pretty quick to respond.

 

none of these factors are a measure of how the suspension compares to other makes, I would be the wrong person to ask for an answer to that question.

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I hope this helps re ride height. Koni sports shocks with adjustable ride height set to give lowest height. Standard Mazda MX5 springs. 15" Watanabe wheels, Firestone Fi tyres

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Meister’s 100% every time, the thing with these roadsters is that owners will and do always want to put their own stamp on them and personalize them for themselves…we all do it, blink, rims, wings,spoilers etc, etc,but with meisters being fully adjustable you can get the ride to how you personally want to, height and ride with 32 different setting from soft to hard, you cannot go wrong with them.

Anyone having issues with ride with them…get the alignment set correct and get good tyres.

 

Opinions are formed from my personal experiences and based on on many 100’s of fellow owners coming through for help and advice through the mazda mender network for many year.

You cannot go wrong with meisters.

M-m

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meister…

So expand…how did they fail? what setting did you have them on? i personally have some of the very first sets sent out and are still going to this day , these meisters have one of the best after sales services out there 100% as you can just pick up a phone at any time and ring him to get a resolve.

M-m

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They’ve not failed, but they will fail (all shocks will fail; there are moving wear parts). And when they fail, they won’t be fixable. I’ll have to replace unnecessarily.

One of the Protecs developed a leak after 130k miles, and so I took the opportunity to have them rebuilt by a specialist. I had the opportunity to check out their workshop, and understand which shocks they would cover, which was all the major brands. I asked about obscure Japanese makes; they’ve looked at those, and found, in most cases, the Japanese use industry-standard parts, and where they didn’t, they could modify parts to suit. I asked about the Meisters; he couldn’t comment on them specifically, but had stripped down a similar Chiense shock to see what made them tick, and responded that the internals did not conform to common standards, making it difficult to detemine if it was economically viable for these shocks to be rebuilt. It was an interesting visit to get views on Protecs and Gaz shock; the specialist’s opinion was they were good budget shocks let down by soime poor manufacturing (swarf contaminants), hence he preferred to get them in “dry” and build them for customers.

Now the reason I took the Protecs to a third party rather than Protec, was because Protec declined to service them, instead offering me a discount on brand new shocks (not a huge discount). They claimed they could no longer support a 2008 shock, due to changes. Which was strange, because the specialist had racks of Protec spares (he buiult Protecs up for Stock Cars, and is the country’s foremost expert), and said there is no issue fitting later parts into the earlier shocks.

While we would hope that Meister will continue to be around in 10-, 20, 30 years time, who can tell. I see Meister stating on forums that the Zeta-S has now been superseded, and that there is no upgrade path for Zeta-S owners. When I brought the shocks, from Meister, they were shipped from a TV aerial company; checks showed both companies used the same address. Not only that, they sent me two sets by mistake, and it proved agonizing for them to come and collect the extra set. Thats my dealings with them, and not a good impression for me. Whenever I have asked on forums about rebuilds, it always got a bit vague, ie. they were just fetching a replacement from stock, rather than matching pairs.

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I’d be interested, too, in which set-up gives the best GT feel for a road car.

I put a set of V-Maxx height adjustable-only coil-overs on Mitzi last year (I had one broken rear spring and one leaking front shock, so it was a quick fix). I’m not displeased with them as the ride on a good surface is excellent. However, on a rough surface, she does pitch and the ride does jar. Also, compared to Little Blue, Mitzi is a good inch lower, which is a problem getting on and off my drive…

I’d like to fit some good quality progressive shocks to give me good handling and an at-least-reasonable ride on rougher roads! The Konis sound like a good option, but what else would achieve this. And are coil-overs or separate shocks/springs better in achieving a good ride?

I’ll be putting the V-Maxx coil-overs on Little Blue, as she’s going on-track and they’ll “do for now”  

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Meisters every-time from here.

Height adjustable that doesn’t affect the perch height so does not affect spring rate. Then on top of that you have 32 clicks of setting from a very nice OE soft to a very nice but not rock back braking hard and everything in-between.

You really cannot go wrong, no more bouncing over bumps that I had on my S-Special with the Bilsteins then the Ebay cheapies.

Having had the Meisters for over three years now and changed them onto another Mk1 and removing the Tein’s that were fitted, the Meisters are most definitely the best thing since sliced bread. Still working perfectly, no leaks, no rust, would I buy them again if I ever have to. YOU BET.

Just had my Mk1 re-aligned today to a fast road setting, on the way back a big BMW tried to keep up, no chance with a well set up Mk1, if you are having skittish harsh ride problems it is not the Meisters that is at fault. More than likely be poly bushes or worn drop links.

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You get the point.

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So, for the Meister fans, what about them is it that makes everyone so hyped about their qualities? I suppose my first question should be how do they ride compared to stock? It would be interesting to hear peoples real world experiences compared to the stock suspension or other brands and types of suspension. I understand that they are made well by most folks standards, would people say they are on a par with the Koni’s, or are these shocks that I can expect to be repurchasing in another 5 years time?

So far I’ve read a lot of praise about the Meisters, but taking into account the type of ride I’m hoping to acheive; a B-road blaster for country lanes and trips to the dales, reviews about track performance are not as informative as I’d like, so any feedback about road manners on UK roads would be useful.

At the moment I’m seeing positives in all of the suspension mentioned, Miester-R/ HSD/ Koni, but also negatives to balance it out.

Meister-R: Monotube design, height adjustable, rebound adjustable, top hat mounts all good. Cons on the other hand are potential lack of lifespan, too harsh perhaps due to limited damper travel, expensive.

HSD Dualtech: Greater damper travel due to twintube design, height adjustable, rebound adjustable, cheaper. Cons, Twintube design not as sophisticated as Meisters, potential lack of lifespan, not top hat as far as I’m aware, but not sure if it makes a difference in a twintube.

Koni Sport: Major brand with solid rep for repairs and servicing. Custom springs and valving a possibility, cheapest option, rebound adjustable, possibly best potential for soaking up bumps and pot holes. Cons, older design, only three ride height settings, not as customisable as coilovers, maybe other cons too???

It’s a bit of a minefield, but I’m certainly open to any info to add to the pro and cons list to help make a decision!

Thanks guys!

17

Where are you located ?

I’m sure someone local with the suspension you would like to try would be happy to give you a drive out.

I have been around Mx’5 for approx 20 years and have driven all marks with just about all types of suspension.

I choose Meisters because I know what they can do for me that others cannot. Plain and simple.

18

I’m not sure it is a “con” to consider a well established design. And after all, the parts are going into a 20th century car.

BTW; 93 on Meisters has done less than 100k. Rest of suspension is in good condition.

96 on Puredrive Protecs; 165k hard miles, original drop links etc. No signs of skittishness etc.

19

Mazda did a very good job of suspension design and OEM parts are made to a very good standard by virtue of the volumes produced and the development experience that went into them. It has always amazed me that what is effectively an off the peg suit is supposed to fit as well as a tailor made item. 

If you want genuine B road performance you do not need firm or stiff suspension because it will bounce you off the road. This is your compromise. The car is a cheap arse sports car, it is never going to have Rolls Royce levels of ride and comfort. It does not have adaptive damping or trick like that. If you want to cope with bumps and dips at speed you need a compliant suspension. If you also want comfort do don’t want stiff. 

The issue here is what do you expect? There is nothing wrong with the standard car. Yes it will roll more that after market stuff, but equally that stiffness is not best for comfort. Everything is a compromise. 

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[quote=Speedy aka Ian]

Where are you located ?

I’m sure someone local with the suspension you would like to try would be happy to give you a drive out.

I have been around Mx’5 for approx 20 years and have driven all marks with just about all types of suspension.

I choose Meisters because I know what they can do for me that others cannot. Plain and simple.

 

I’m based in Leeds/Bradford so if there are any local folks who don’t mind taking me for a drive that’d be awesome! 

I’ve felt the standard bilsteins before and they are fairly brutal so it’d be a good experience to see what custom jobbies offer!

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