Getting quotes for replacing rear hub carriers with original parts. Was advised that it may be wise to replace rear wheel bearings at same time since they may cause problems during the replacement of the carriers. Is this good advice?
It’s an arm and a leg for original hub carriers from Mazda. The biggest downside is that the replacements will be to the same specification as the originals. One of mine failed at around 18k miles. It’s a known weak point that hasn’t been addressed.
It’s the upper and lower main spherical bearings that fail. There is a guy on Facebook called Andy Leslie who has developed uprated replacements for these bearings and a tool to remove and replace them. There is also a set of replacement Polybushes available from MX5Parts. Uprated spherical bearings is a better option than bushes as the suspension will still move in the way it was designed to.
Using Andy’s replacement bearings you will be able to do both sides cheaper than one side using Mazda carriers.
The advantage of Andy’s bearings is that they can be fitted with the hub carriers in-situ; don’t have to take the hubs off, disconnect the drive shafts, drain the diff oil etc so it’s a quicker install. With the polybush there’s more labour as you have to get all that stuff off so the hub can be taken to a press to get the new bushes in. However, the polybush is significantly cheaper so might offset that time saving. The clincher may be availability, I think both are somewhat making to order.
I’m not going to pretend my palette is sophisticated enough and technical knowledge extensive enough to say which is a better solution handling wise, Andy’s are closer to OEM but polybushes are well proven in many applications.
Appreciate the cost and future reoccurrence arguments. Until I get a full appreciation of the costs involved I really would prefer to fit original parts. I am concerned that other less costly solutions may lead to harsher ride and loss of enjoyment in the car.
I hoped that all dismantling to replace the ND carrier hub was done local to the hub without the need to disturb the drive shaft at the diff and the need to drain & replace diff oil.
From this hope and my my original query about the wisdom of having replacement bearings in case of some likely need to replace them, it is probably pretty obvious to all that I don’t have much of a clue as to what is involved.
Neglecting alternative less costly solutions, apart from the obvious need for two new hub carriers with integral rubber bushes/sphericals can anyone advise as to what parts a garage needs to allow for when quoting?
Mazda do not sell bushes for hub carrier, they only sell the whole part, it’s over £400 per side Rear Hub, MX5 Mk4 & RF and to my knowledge the part has not been improved. I wasn’t happy basically rewarding them for a shoddy product likely to fail again, so I got bushes.
The polybushes are £180 for both sides Polybush Rear Hub Upper & Lower Lateral Arm Bushes, MX5 Mk4 & RF
There is not much difference in labour between polybushes or a whole carrier, other than not having to press in new bearings for the latter - the hub still has to come of and the driveshafts have to come out from the diff. The only other item you would need a quote on is the cost of replacing diff oil, I’m not aware of other preventative work you would do at the same time.
EDIT: I forgot you will need a four wheel alignment whether you swap the bushes or whole carrier
Have a look here WHEEL HUB COMPONENT REMOVAL/INSTALLATION | 2016 ND Shop Manual (hexorcism.com) It has all you or your mechanic needs to know.
The cost of the parts are easily found here MX5 Suspension Components & Kits for Mk4 2015> | MX5parts - Page 3 Page 2 has the bushes.
The wheel bearings are a compete unit and are shown here as well. You should not require new bearings just to replace the bushes or hub carrier.
Personally I would just replace these Polybush Rear Hub Upper & Lower Lateral Arm Bushes, MX5 Mk4 & RF (mx5parts.co.uk) I understand that Rodders in Sheffield can do this so would be worth talking to.
Great, and thanks.
All this will help when I discuss any quotes from the garages of my choice.
Love the car and keen to keep it in good order, hopefully until I am not.
Had a 2007 1.8 Mark 3 NC for 9 years prior to this. Only “bother” was two drop links and a seized front brake calliper. Bullet Proof.
Despite enjoying my ND (in my opinion even better car to drive than my previous NC) , if I knew in 2016 what I know now about rear hub carriers, doubt I would have bought it. Since problem seems to remain unresolved by Mazda I can’t really say that I could wholeheartedly advise anyone to get one.
You forgot to mention the electric window regulators, they’re basically a bloody consumable! And LSD needing oil every 12-24 months despite Mazda telling you it’s 5 years. And the gearbox issues. Oh and apparently I’m hearing the engine mounts are made of chocolate 
Assuming this is because of bush wear?
We can supply and fit new bushes saving you £££
I think some perspective is needed here.
Yes, there are a few weak points on the ND MX5, however they are occasional failures and easily (and relatively cheaply) rectified.
Ask Jaguar Land Rover drivers if you want some real horror stories about unreliability and poor design, in addition they have dealers often in complete denial that the product is anything but perfect.
Suspension bushes do far more than isolate a suspension arm from the body/subframe, to the extent many deflect differently dependant on the direction a load is applied and are almost considered consumable items.
I think the mistake Mazda have made is only supplying a complete hub assembly and not individual bushes. I’d like to think they have a good engineering reason behind this. It could be that many main dealers will not have the facilities or expertise to swap bushes, or the castings aren’t very robust (lightweight) and may crack as the bushes are changed - particularly if the hub isn’t supported properly. Who knows.
Imho the mx5, Mazda, and the Japanese and Korean brands in general have an enviable and well deserved reputation for reliability, and I would certainly endorse anyones mx5 purchase as a cheap to run engaging and enjoyable car.
Look at the running costs of a 5 year old Porsche Boxter if you want some perspective.
November 2020 I was quoted around £700 including VAT to do one side. Thankfully Mazda agreed to make a contribution and the final bill was just under £200.
Mazda contributions are dependant on mileage, age, main dealer history and number of owners. Requests for a contribution has to be done through a Mazda dealer.
I have looked at all the options available as a replacement bush to overcome this issue….we have actually fitted them to customer cars.
I find one of the best value and what I feel will be the longer lasting bush is the poly bush.
This is what will be fitted to my car when needed and we now stock them in bulk
If Mazda are ignoring the existing issues, they are as guilty as JLR.
To me, comparing known and costly ND issues, however rare, to other brands’, doesn’t make them more palatable.
Is this problem with the hub carriers a problem across the whole ND range, or just on models with the rear slip diff?
I have the 2015-2018 ND1 1.5 SE-L
According to the brochures for the 2015-2018 ND only the 2.0 Sport at that time had a Limited Slip Differential (LSD). Mine doesn’t.
I have the problem of worn bush/sphericals noticeably on the rear passenger hub carrier and to a much lesser degree on the rear driver side hub carrier. This was brought to my attention when the car was in for its 5th service close 27000 miles driving. As far as I can tell through this forum the problem with the hub carrier is a common problem LSD or no (wear & tear?).
Had a look at the 2016 ND Service manual link Mad Malc provided and it appears to me that the hub carrier is removed and replaced without the need to remove the drive shaft from the diff. The work is all local to linkages etc local to the Carrier hub. I assume then that there is no need to replace the diff oil. I did have a diff oil change anyway on 18 August last at around 30000 miles after driving through some very deep flood water.
Maybe if others referred to Mad Malc’s Service manual link they could confirm or deny my reading of it. Still not sure if wheel bearings would be an issue.
Don’t have the answer to what needs to be done with changing the hub carrier. However the labour element on my dealer fitted replacement of one side was only around an hour. There was no reference to wheel bearings or diff oil.
Have a look here REAR AXLE | Mazda MX-5 Europe 11.2017 | Parts Catalogs | PartSouq
The wheel bearings are all in the hub which is a single unit. This is bolted to the upright. You do not need to disturb the bearing if you are just replacing the bushes, the drive shaft is nocked out from the front as per the manual I posted earlier.
I appears that the replacement spherical bushes can be replaced without taking the upright out of the car thus saving time and money.
Once the tie rods and the drive shaft are released the upright complete with bearing carrier and bearings will be free. If you are replacing the whole upright with a new one and the bearings are in good condition you just unbolt the bearing carrier and reattach it to the new one.
One of the garages I am waiting on a quote from suggested new wheel bearings when doing the work. Apparently they discovered a need for a new wheel bearing when carrying out similar work on an MX5. Maybe just makes job easier!
Prefer to replace both hub carriers (fool & his money…!).
Could pressing out existing bearing from the existing hub carriers result in some damage or problems with the press fit into the new hub carriers, so better to be looking at rather than for mid job? Not sure what new bearings would cost but looks like Roadie did not need bearings or diff oil to be replaced (unless the bill wasn’t itemised)
The hub carrier and the bearings are a single unit. This Hub & Bearing, Rear, MX5 Mk4 (mx5parts.co.uk) is what you buy. I am not aware that you can just replace the bearings but others may know differently.
It does not make the job any easier, you will need to undo just three bolts either way.
Rodders has replied to you with his valuable advice. If you can get to Sheffield he will save you a lot of money and provide a far better and longer lasting solution. But as ever it is your decision to take or leave the advice given here.
Sorry I was wrong and deluded to recollect that the bearings were a press fit into the Hub Carrier. Looking again at the “exploded” diagram of the rear suspension I see that the Hub & Bearing bolts into the Hub carrier.
Should have paid closer attention and gotten a better understanding of the diagram first time around.
Have no reason to believe expensive new hub & bearing needed, just the hub carrier. Thanks to you I can put this to the quoting garage.
I’m afraid it is an expensive sea journey to Mainland and a long drive to Sheffield.
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