I think the difference is also to do with passing your Driving Test OR driving as an Advanced Driver would. To pass the Driving Test you are taught to slow down using the brakes, which means de-clutching and essentially coasting for the last few metres (as brakes are cheaper to replace than clutches and gearboxes).
As an Advanced Driver, you are always in the correct gear for the situation and conditions, which may mean 3rd or even 2nd in slower moving traffic. Incidentally, heel and toeing is something I do frequently, even though the IAM only talk about matching engine speed to road speed when changing down.
I’m aware we’ve gone off topic which was primarily changing UP smoothly, but it’s a case of the OP practicing more.
TBH, this was the first thing that crossed my mind. It takes time to adjust to a car - any car - but that is one of the joys of developing that unity with a person and a machine. It takes a little time (sometimes a long time) to feel each other out. The OP doesn’t say how long he’s been driving, how old he is, how long he’s had the car. All of which can have an affect on the ability of car/driver. I wouldn’t be so hard on anyone who baulks a gearchange from cold and I suspect that a lightened flywheel (with less mass rotating) could well have an effect on gearchange quality also but once everything has nicely warmed up I don’t see any reason why a 4th-5th gearchange should be jagged or harsh.
And as much as I’m a fan of the IAM principles, I don’t know if gearchange quality is something that can be taught, more as, something you must feel. We all know how to change gear - from thereon it’s a simple case of refinement. 25yrs on and I’m still making a mess of my 1st to 2nd change. Some days are better than others but I wouldn’t worry needlessly about it. The clutch adjustment seems a good step forward as already the OP says that the bite point in the middle of the travel feels more ‘natural’. Makes me want to try that myself…
In particular the OP having to put the seat forward 1 notch! Even after owning many MGs I found that I end up with arms more bent and looking like a granny over the wheel. It’s no good punting the clutch pedal with the end of your toe, it needs to go to the floor every shift.
Points I note are;
Long clutch travel, and need to get the thing to the floor
Definite issue with the correct gear oil, get some light GL4 in there such as Castrol or Redline. The oil drag in this box is obvious when cold; start the engine in neutral, cold, on a flat smooth floor and you’ll see the car actually move forward!
The gear selector has a very strong neutral position, decide where you want to go before shifting and move firmly or the pass through neutral upsets progress by just a fraction of a second which ruins the shift. Much sweeter when warm. May explain why top-down (warm weather) shifts are better.
Check clutch adjustment by all means but be careful. As it wears the clutch bite point will move upwards anyway so making the effect release point higher and losing any slack. If anything you would need to slacken the pushrod adjustment rather than tighten it as the clutch wears.
I would advise great caution if trying to adjust for more clutch release. Study the action and you’ll see a strong stop welded on the pedal which is designed to be put to the floor. Check full movement as first measurement, mine is 5 1/4". Check the freeplay and you’ll see that 1/4" is just referring to the completely dead play in the clevis pin before the pushrod moves at all. It’s to ensure the m/cyl movement is not being restricted by the pedal. The danger is that in an attempt to obtain more clutch disengagement it will be adjusted too tightly and will start to slip.
Best way to check the clutch release point is stationary shifting from 1st to reverse and back again as you slowly raise the clutch till it will not allow the shift. This shows where the bite is. I never shift to 1st on the move, why?? put it in 1st instictively as the car stops, always have done from days before synchro 1st I suppose.
Here’s Haynes excellent bit on clutch adjustment (it doesn’t tell you how to get the spanner in there but not to worry) and my scribblings are the specs given elsewhere, very good manual for the price, Haynes 61016 got mine off eBay for about £12,
Using engine compression to retard the car slightly (brakes if needed first) I’d say is good practice especially on the approach to a hazard. It creates more engine compression thus speed if you need it and a great mental awareness of the hazard ahead.
It gives the (adjustable) distance to set the pedal from the bulkhead as 130mm,
then the clearance for the pushrod measured at the pedal to set as 5 - 15mm using the pushrod nut
then the distance to check that the pedal should travel before disengagement as 80 - 110mm
From that you can work out the disengagement point as being in a range of 20 - 50mm from the floor.
Now that’s quite a tolerance so it’s quite possible some clutches have a very low biting point and may be able to be adjusted to have a little less slack but care is needed.
The easiest way to check that 20 - 50mm from the floor is to gradually raise the pedal with the engine running whilst trying to shift between 1st and reverse. The moment the clutch starts to engage it will block the shift, dip the pedal fully, repeat a couple of times and you’ll soon get the idea of where the release point is. You can often hear that point in a quiet garage in neutral as you dip and release the pedal and it releases then engages the first motion shaft.
If the bite point is very low you could physically lengthen the pushrod with the adjuster but then you risk putting the release bearing under constant rotation, over-stroking the clutch cover, and ultimately I suppose clutch slip if you really over did it.
That sounds to be a very low pedal for every day driving, no wonder a lot of Mk3 owners complain about it. At the end of the day, it’s just a set of simple levers and cranks, so really should be a better setup
Hi Geoff, agree absolutely, though mine’s nearer 2" from the floor than 3/4" so worth checking. If a car does have too much free play then taking most of it out will help but it’s not the cause of the notchiness I get cold and which disappears hot.
Like I said it has to go to the floor on all but the fastest shifts in the higher gears and there’s a proper stop welded to the back of the pedal lever. You do get used to it!
The trade off from the long action is a very light pedal which can easily be floored with your thumb (not when driving unless you’re Terry Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb5F-U1CQto saw him at Gt Yarmouth a couple of years back ). It also disengages cleanly without drag and works very smoothly.
I’m used to the driving position since MGs in the 70’s but I think the OP has 90% of the problem sussed when he said you have to sit closer than you expect. By the time the pedal is down your leg is pretty straight which is strange if you’re used to soloon cars and even stranger if you usually leave your heel on the mat.
Yup, although when I moved the seat forward, I then felt very cramped over the wheel - I must have long legs. Adjusting the pedal slightly has allowed me to sit back a bit further while giving me much better control of the bite point.
Ive also heeded warnings about making this adjustment too high and having the clutch slip even with the pedal up. Whilst I was in the footwell I used my hand to operate the pedal. You can feel that there are a couple of inches of travel where you can feel resistance from the pedal spring, then that resistance gets heavier as you feel the clutch release springs. Im sure there is no slip from the clutch, although I will keep an eye on it over the next few days and make further adjustments if neccessary.
Thanks for this very useful post.It never occured to me that there was any adjustment of the clutch pedal available,just assumed that because it was hydraulic it would self adjust with time and wear,which it will of course as the plate wears.
Had our MK3 for about 5 and 1/2 years and done about 45k miles and often thought the clutch pedal was too low in comparison to the brake/accelerator and even considered putting a block on the pedal to reduce the distance,but my wife doesn’t have a problem with it,however she’s about 5’3"so sits fairly far forward,whereas I’m 6’2" and usually have the seat as far back as poss.Have tried the seat one notch forward but found that too tight although deffo better for changing gear/disengaging the clutch.
When I first drove the car I also found the fly by wire accelerator took a bit of getting used to,after years of the feel of a cable.As to using the gears to slow down/heeling and toeing/have always done this,as this was the way I was taught after passing my test in April 1960,about 14 days after my 17th birthday.
As soon as it stops raining!!I’ll be taking a look at the pedal arrangement,measuring and adjusting as per this post,so thanks again to all for your input.
The bite point will move up with wear but check anyway. As far as I can see all that can be done is, to check full movement, check free play in the clevis, and check bite point as 1-2" from the floor.
However, I did feel a bit guilty at not bleeding new fluid through the clutch system when I did the brakes a few weeks ago (common reservoir for both) so if we get the good weather promised tomorrow I will get the good lady to help me do it. The first part of the clutch master piston movement does seem very weak and it is possible there’s lost movement due to air in there but we shall see. Anyone done a Mk3 without a ramp, how is access, any tips etc please?
I dont know about changing the clutch, but I picked up some of the Ford Fully Synthetic Transmission Fluid the other day (everyone on miata.net raves about it as being absolutely excellent in the 6 speed box and claims it eradicates a lot of the cold shifting problems). However I cant get the car high in the air enough to get enough space to work underneath. Im going to have to wait until my next service and ask the fluid be changed for the Ford stuff.
The shoes worn do make a difference and those I use for driving the MX aren’t necessarily the ones that feel good in other cars. Thin soled and close fitting seems the order of the day MX wise; an old, since deceased Saab 900 (old proper Saab type) could be driven well in army boots
Just been over to the site to have a look at this, 5 and 6 speed transmissions are being reported by owners as a lot smother and no notchyness after running for 5 to 10 miles (once it’s worked in) with this oil. I recently had my gearbox oil changed at a service (along with my engine & Diff oil) and my gearbox does feel notchier now than it did before when it was a joy to change, now because mazda recommend the same oil for the Gearbox & Diff I may change the oil again in both to this Motorcraft oil, If I do I’ll report back, unless someone has already done it
If I’m looking at the right sheet it is 75W90 fully synth GL4 similar to Castrol Syntrans which has improved mine no end. I left Mobil GL5 fully synth in the diff. I had put teh Mobil in the gearbox as well but it was hopeless and completely blocked 1>2 ans 2>3 when cold.
It was a nice day so I bled the clutch with the help of the good lady. Flushed 1/2 L through. It did have air in and the pedal is a little firmer. Then I took a 12mm OE spanner to the master cyl pushrod and slackened the locknut to feel the slack properly. I set it so the clevis just floats when the pedal is fully up and was able to adjust it longer by a full turn, so maybe 1mm = 5 or 6mm more movement at the pedal. Then it was top down and an hour round the lanes Perfect, honestly, really good in every gear, the best it’s ever been and excellent in absolute terms. Even first selects at 10mph sensibly (and 15mph to try it no problem but not a good habit!). It is warmer today, 15C maybe but it’s been warmer before and the change wasn’t as good. So, not sure what is responsible but quite possibly a bit of all 3, certainly the oil, and the bleeding and adjustment both too to some degree.
It’s not you’re fault, it’s the clutch design, where you have to push your foot down; right down, to the floor every time you change gear. Don’t expect a constructive answer from the rose tinted specs brigade on this forum though. Does it also stall when manouvering about at low speed, because you won’t read anything about that on here either. Buy another car!
). It also disengages cleanly without drag and works very smoothly.
