Does that not put more strain on the clutch plate, as you’ll be engaging the clutch with the revs quite high?
The jerk Ive experienced doesn’t actually feel like its a problem with the revs dropping; after I’ve changed gear I can smoothly re-enage the clutch and accelerate.
What I’m feeling seems to be more related to when I disenagage the clutch at high revs. This is quite hard to explain, but I’ve helped alleviate it by doing a couple of things:
Firstly, I consiously position my right foot a bit further back on the carpet, so I’m pressing the accelerator with my toes rather than the ball of my foot. This means I can come completely off the accelerator much more quickly and completely. My theory is that I might have been dipping the clutch before I’d come off the accelerator fully, so the lurch was being cause by the engine revs spiking as the clutch plates seperate.
-Secondly I’m trying to discipline my clutch foot. When driving at maximum attack, I’m stamping down on the clutch in an effort to change up quickly. I’m now making a conscious effort to ensure I use the clutch smoothly. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, as they* say. The combined fact that I’m pressing the clutch in very quickly and not lifting my foot off the gas as above is I think the prime cause of bad changes.
I have no problem driving smoothly day to day, it’s only when Im accelerating hard in lower gears (from 1st > 2nd, 2nd > 3rd) that I find myself getting jerky. But, since the clutch adjustment and fluid change, things are much better, so I will continue to practice
Yes but these are modern cars and surely all that is needed is to ensure that the clutch is engaged on a running engine, except in specific cirumstances, some downhill changes for instance.
Apart from the slight baulkiness of the MX gearbox, especially when cold, it is one of the easiest cars to drive smoothly.
I’m a bit lost with this topic to be honest and perhaps the original poster, as they suggest, really is ■■■■ at changing gear. It’s no shame on them as an awful lot of people are and IMHO it’s down to how they are taught.
I’ve been driving my Mk2 6 speed now for around six months and must say it’s took some getting use to as the original poster has reported. Having said this I don’t think it’s anything to do with the gearbox or clutch of the car it’s just me. Having owned a Mk1 also I found that ok on the gear change (5 speed) after a while, especially after a shift boots and oil had been renewed. What I have learned to do with the Mk2 6 speed is be more firm with the shifts, sort of grab the gear knob firmly (sounds painful) when changing, works for me.
It’s very different to my everyday Vauxhall I drive, I can change gear in that with just very light pressure almost just with one finger and a thumb for example. So I guess that’s were the OP is comparing the gear shift differences, maybe with the other cars he had or has driven.
My wife was having a problem getting used to the gears… I told her not to be so stressed about changing up and down as the speed range of 2,3 and 4 is so wide that she could hold off changing up or down so soon… She tried that and has found the driving experience so much better
I have to keep telling my girlfriend the exact same thing. She has the annoying habit of driving it like it’s a diesel - accelerating hard, but changing up too soon, well before the engine has reached the best power band. It results in quite a jerky acceleration, and must be doing the efficiency no good.
I try to make sure I never change up below 3000RPM when accelerating, I will only change up before then if I’ve reached the speed I want and just want to settle into a cruise.
That explains it., my wife’s previous 2 cars were “Diseaseals” she did have probs. with my petrol cars or hired ones… at least the 2.0 MX5 has some decent torque so it easier to get used to driving it.
I was browsing Miata.net and stumbled across a guy who said he’d completed the “well known” clutch switch adjustment to cure a problem with lag when upshifting from 1st to 2nd. That led me to this thread: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=282088
Out of interested I disconnected the switch they are referring to and the car felt completely different. Upshifting was smooth with none of the bucking feeling I felt like I was getting.
In short, this switch seems to cut the power/torque slightly when the clutch pedal is pushed in. Whilst this is designed to help increase the life of the clutch by limiting power, the resultant lag causes the bucking senstation which is exactly why I started this thread.
I am now finding a way to modify the bump stop on the clutch pedal that activates this switch; unplugging it made the shift noticably better with no power drop when depressing the clutch, but some have reported that after awhile, the CEL will illuminate. Whereas modifying the bump stop will allow you to leave it plugged in whilst not activating the power drop as early.
It’s a bit late to go into detail here but this issue is explained well enough in the linked thread if anyone is interested.
Thanks for that, just read the whole thread, fascinating It doesn’t seem to affect all cars and is not something I’ve noticed other than in 6th gear where in another thread I described;
“On a different note can I ask if yours sounds like it’s going into overdrive when you change up into 6th? That is, the power take up, even on a fast shift, is soft and fractionally delayed with that similar sound you hear from an auto or old school overdrive unit. Ours definitely does it and it’s not clutch slip, clutch is perfect, very precise and sweet, it must be a software feature I think.”
If your car is driving with that lag in the other gears then I can understand you having problems
I can honestly say ours drives exactly as a cable throttle would, no lag, except 6th when if I’m taking my time (Condor moment as we slip into top and relax ) we get that lovely overdrive feeling.
So, yours, I wonder then if it’s 1) software difference 2) driving style 3) mechanical difference in the clutch switch or pedal adjustment.
The clutch switch connects as the pedal is depressed so if it connects earlier (and hence disconncets later when the pedal is released) there will be a longer period of ignition retard and a lag before full service is resumed. This combined with a different bite point and adjustment to the clutch could account for the difference between owners/cars.
On the other hand ours definitely has it on 6th but nowhere else so it may well be an ecu software issue and I’ve no idea if ours has been updated as we didn’t buy it new. There will probably be different software for different markets to account for fuel and also for DSC/traction and cruise control. Goes like stink though and can easily fishtail shifting into 3rd in the wet without DSC. I’m also curious as to why the early US cars were quoted with 10bhp more than the UK?
I have no idea why some experienced this issue and others didn’t. All I can say is that the symptoms other people were describing were exactly the ones that caused me to start this thread. As someone on miata.net put it, “it was like throwing an anchor out of the window between shifts”. It’s caused me to scrutinze everything from my seat position, my footwear, my technique, etc - adjusting the clutch pedal and changing to a better gear oil improved things, but I was still getting this feeling of hesitation when upshifting. It was really affecting my enjoyment of the car - I’ve been very hesitant to accelerate hard because I was so wary of upshifting at high revs. I expected the car to buck and it made me almost tentative to drive the car as intended.
Since making this change, it’s like driving a different car. I went for a drive last night and every upshift was smooth, even when pushing on. I flew down the slip road onto the A2, accelerating hard and whereas before the car had felt jerky and hesitant, the effect of having this ‘lag’ removed is akin to having more power. It’s utterly fantastic. This morning it was the same; I could join the motorway on the way to work and be much more fluid with the gearshift knowing that the car wasn’t going to bog down.
I cant believe what a difference this had made. Combined with the adjusted clutch pedal (which had improved the cold 2nd gear shift) and the gearbox oil (which has made the stick smoother in general) this modification makes the car feel more willing and sporty, and it doesn’t ‘bog down’ in second.
Rather than unplug the switch, I’ve now withdrawn it from the pedal assembly (its attached with a simple lug - just give it a twist anti clockwise and pull it away from the pedal). Leaving it plugged in, I secured the plunger fully pressed in with strong tape, then tucked the whole lot away under the dash. I’m hoping this will prevent any problems with the CEL illuminating.
I want to know if disconnecting the clutch switch has any negative effects - from what I can tell, this engine lag is designed to stop a poor driver from putting too much strain on the clutch by limiting power when shifting; this shouldnt be an issue as long as you don’t slip the clutch though. So far the only side effect I have is that with the car in gear and the clutch depressed (sitting at lights, say) the idle rises slightly to about 1100RPM rather than 850 or so. However I’ve found this actually helps pulling away a little, almost as if the car is automatically priming itself to move off.
If anyone else is having this problem with upshifting, I would deifnately suggest getting under your steering wheel and disconnecting the switch - it’s a 10 second job, just unclip the spring and withdraw the connector and go for a drive. The difference will become instantly apparent. If you don’t feel a difference, or you don’t like it, it’s reversible - just reattched the connector and it’s securing spring and the switch will be active again.
This talk of electronics overriding the throttle reminds me of when I test drove an AudiTT - as I left foot braked (ie. trail braking) it killed the throttle. I thought the engine had stopped
Something like this clutch switch you’re talking about would bug me. I’m happy the mk2.5 MX5 doesn’t have this … “feature”.
Thanks Daiabu for your post. I’ve yet to read the link @miata.net about this problem but will do later.
Here’s an experience of mine since I last read this thread. I’ve been experiencing difficult changes like yourself on my 6 speed. Anyway it’s been getting better but put it down to myself not the car so much. Anyway I’ve done everything possible, changed gear shift boots, oil, slave cylinder and so on. Now it has got a little better over time but I was not completely happy still with the gear shifting if I’m honest, almost to the point of selling the car and going back to a Mk1 5 speed.
Anyway that thought has passed now and I decided to treat the car to some different seats. So the seats arrived along with a matching steering wheel complete with airbag attached. So the very nice seller arrived and said I could do with s swap of your steering wheel, can we do it now and I’ll also fit the seats whilst I’ve got the tools out. So 30 mins later I have my nice new seats and wheel installed. Why tell you all this? Well before fitting the airbag steering wheel we disconnected the battery for obvious reasons, then connected it back up when done. Anyways my first drive after this work and I couldn’t believe it, it was like driving a different car. The gear change was smooth and precise, no notchy changes and no jerks between changes. The day after I went on a 300mile round trip to Wiltshire staying overnight and a nice slow drive back through the Cotswolds and it was a pleasure to drive all the way.
So I really think that after the battery disconnection it has somehow reset something on the car, what I don’t know but obviously connected to gearbox/engine. Having said all this I’m now experiencing a noise when the clutch is operated, I noticed it this morning when the engine was turned off. It may be the cheap slave cylinder I fitted earlier this year, will change that for a gen Mazda one I think.
What do others think about this little story? or am I talking a load of ****
Mick, I can’t believe you’ve just posted that, I was going to suggest similar!
I’m not sure how “adaptive” the ecu is but one of the posters on that Miata thread suggested similar. That got me thinking right back to our Mk3 Golf Gti in 1995 which the dealer said had an adaptive ecu and that it would adapt to my driving style.
Maybe some of these MXs have given up after being driven by grannys? Only joking but worth removing the battery leads and holding the brake pedal down for a minute. Mine was reset when I changed the battery in the winter and I’d suggest others try it so long as they have the radio code if it has been entered. The only other thing to reset, apart from the radio stations, is DSC, it’s in the owners manual, a matter of turning the wheel lock to lock.
My battery was replaced back in November when the cold killed it, so the car has been through a reset in the period I’ve owned it. It gave me some idling issues after a new battery was put in (I posted a thread about it at the time), but they were cured by leaving the car to sit at idle for en extended period.
The noise has now gone from the clutch pedal, just been out to the car to check something else. Must be this weather, plenty of creaks and stuff with these cars sometimes. Still going to change that slave though. Yep disconnecting the battery is an easy starting point for others experiencing similar problems. Check you have your codes etc for radio first.
Another problem with this weather is my rear spoiler has started to lift off the boot lid, then it goes back down again when the sun goes in. Parked in the shade at the moment.
The day after I removed this switch from the pedal, the check engine light came on, so even when plugged in, the ECU is still throwing an error when the switch doesn’t get activated for a few cycles. Bugger
However, I took out the rubber pad on the clutch pedal and modfiied it using some Sugru (http://sugru.com/), adding another few milimetres onto it. Seems to have done the job and hopefully will mean the ECU wont throw another CEL.
love it, remember too that if you pull out the choke knob it’s good for hanging your handbag on…
