I understand there has been a number of issues with the rear hub carrier on the ND and hoped that someone who has some experience of this could explain exactly what the problem is. The questions that I think worth answering are:
Exactly where is the issue?
How do we ‘test’ for it?
What does a ‘faulty’ hub carrier look like?
Photographs or diagrams would speak a thousand words on this topic.
I know it would be good for us all to keep an eye on them but without understand the issue this could prove difficult in practice. Thanks in anticipation
This is why I joined the club. Having archived threads to go find out about things is a game changer in car ownership. One day I might need this. No matter what what it is concerning, these sort of threads are going to be gold later on.
Thanks for drawing attention to this potential issue. A few thoughts come to mind. Firstly, since the ND has been around for a few years now I would have expected more reports if it was a widespread problem? Secondly did Mazda improve the design for ND2 I wonder. Thirdly (and most importantly) is this a safety issue? From reading the link it would appear Mazda are aware and appear to be prepared to contribute to the cost of repairs. It seems there could be one or two flies in the ointment with the ND which is a shame as it is a great car to drive. We’ll see how things develop…
There must be quite a few 5 year old ND’s around and yet there has been little or no reporting of the issue, if it were a BIG problem we’d have heard the screams from Miataland by now. I’m guessing that it’s just another over-exaggerated problem, like the gearbox one.
Can i just point out that there have been a fair number of cases of people experiencing this issue, all with varying contribution from Mazda. Its a lot more common than you might think and no the issue is not resolved on ND2, replacement parts are still identical to those they replace, therefore the issue will be repeated. I’m hoping by the time mine is effected someone has come up with a more viable solution than having to have the whole carrier replaced.
On fairness the only people who report about the hubs are those with problems. No one has ever started a thread titled ‘my hubs are fine’ only to ask if that’s normal.
Bit like aeroplane crashes,100,000 a day land safely and no one puts it on the front of a news paper, every few years one crashes and it’s every where you turn.
Assuming that in this modern age the rear hub carriers are mass produced from a uniform material, with precise dimensions and low tolerances then there is no reason this problem should not surface on every ND. Given the generally lower miles driven and the relatively young age of the car it is reasonable to expect that increasing age, road condition and driving style differences will eventually show more cases.
It is an unforeseen design flaw much like the scuttle grommets on the mk3.
Many NDs are daily drivers with thousands of cars here and abroad on high mileage. So, after 5 years since launch I would still have expected a lot more reports by now. Hard use on track should also have thrown up more cases than we’re seeing, so I’ll admit to being a little confused. There’s a lack of data to draw any firm conclusions at this point imo.
With all the classic cars I’ve owned and restored plus when I worked in classic car restoration, we hardly ever refitted the Metallastic bushes that was the OE bush of the 1960’s, we instead fitted Polyurethane bushes that were so much easier to install and lasted longer, they didn’t make the car feel harsher in fact they made the suspension feel sharper. I still think Mazda are out of order not recalling and up rating the rear bushes, but if we still like and want to keep the car then maybe we should fit these.
Hi and thank you for the input so far. It all fair comment and good reading BUT please do not forget my original questions and the main point of this thread which is to identify specifically which bushes are the issue and exactly what we should be looking for in order to determine that a bush is faulty.
Hi Mad_Malc, if you look on page four of that MX5life.com link there is a photo of the rear hub assembly and you can quite clearly see the rubber in one of the metallastic bushes has started to break up, where he has marked it with a red arrow, so I would check all of those bushes, if or when mine gets the knocking sound, that breaking up is typical of that design of suspension bush. I worked for a motor factors for a few years in the 1980’s and we used to sell an uprated bush for the notorious Mk4/5 Cortina rear void bushes, these had voids in them to make them more compliant, all it did was make them fail quicker, if I remember correctly Ford kept selling the void bush but it was up to the aftermarket to do something about it and redesign it, I used to work on our company vans and look after some of the other cars we had, one of them being a Mk4 Cortina estate and I changed all of the bushes on that, we even sold a bush removal kit so you didn’t need specialist tools like a press.
I don’t think I will be losing any sleep over it as I’m sure someone will come up with the goods to fix them as has been the case for most makes of cars over the years even if it means fitting poly bushes and mine is a daily driver now on about 16,000 miles.
At the end of the day it is a pretty poor show on Mazda’s part that in this day and age they can’t design a type of bush that has been around for decades.
Cortina void bushes where not alone. My E30 BMW had the same issue on the rear axel. Replacing them with solid bushes from an estate on the Cortina, Capri, BMW, lots of other cars, was common as a fix. The solid estate bushes would last infinitely longer.
Perhaps if someone has accurate measurements there will be a company already making solid bushes for other cars that could be used. If not machining poly bushes isn’t hard, I used to make and sell poly engine mounts many moons ago but it became impossible to make them as cheap as you can now buy them off the shelf.
There are 15,000 parts on a car. You have to forgive Mazda for slipping up a bit on one or two of them. I agree they should make upgrades to replacements tho.
On my FE Victor Estate I accepted the fact that each year I needed to replace the void-bush at the front (body) end of each of the two lower arms on the rear suspension. It had to have been a design or specification fault.
The “Service Training Manual” suggests removal of arm and spring (a safety issue I guess), and for the first time that is what I did, four bushes on each side (including the upper arms) plus both bushes on the Panhard rod; all were totally shot after about 50,000 miles when I bought the car. Picture below.
A year later when checking for MOT, the two lower front were almost worse than the ones I had taken out, all the rest looked like new. The same each subsequent year, and only about 10,000 miles a year. The effect from these worn bushes was “Rear end steering.”
In the end I had it down to less than ten minutes a side, with a jack under the arm near the bush only to balance the weight acting on the spring and move the arm up and down. The old studding and nuts acting on a couple of sockets trick worked a treat.
For a big heavy car (without power steering) it handled easier and better than the Mini Cooper I’d borrowed for a few weeks until I bought the bitsa, and until I drove the MX5 that old Victor estate had by far the best road holding and stability. Happy days, despite two other design faults I eventually worked around.
When I worked in car restoration the guy I worked for imported a 1967 911 from the states, when it came to change the bushes, Chris Witor, who is well known it the Triumph world made most of the bushes under his Superflex brand, unfortunately two of the bushes we wanted weren’t made, we contacted him and I think we sent him an old bush and he made them for us and then added them to the list for Porsche bushes.
Like you did with making engine mounts we also bought some material from him and made some bushes ourselves, although if I remember it was like trying to drill jelly but it worked .
Mx5 mk4 December 2015. Mileage 44584. Just had 5 year service and MOT. Two advisories that suspension arm pin or bush worn on both nearside and offside. Quotation for repair from Mazda main dealer is £1431.50. Nice Christmas present! The dealer will be contacting Mazda on my behalf about this ridiculous situation
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